Anyone else going to the USAGPAN in 2011?

olderthandirt2 · Jul 9, 2009

Hello all, I am new to this forum but find it to be quite useful so far. I have a question....I have just recently applied to the Army's CRNA program for the calss starting in 2011. I was accepted by the LTHET board but I have yet to hear from NEU yet. When do you generally hear from them on your acceptance? Also, is there anyone else out there that applied to the same class starting in 2011 at Ft. Sam?

I would Call NEU TODAY. The contact is C. Litizinger (in your direct acession info from the USAGPAN website).

You might want to ask when the next "board review" is. They do it a few times a year. Also, you will need to "check and double check" that all your documents are together and there (NEU) before the review......invariably something "goes missing" and you have to resubmit it/or coax them to "find it" (ie transcript, gre score, lors etc)

Are you active duty already or new accession?

Good Luck,

c. "current USAGPAN" student

Law-Deezie · Jul 10, 2009

Yes I am active duty. Thanks for the info. I recevied an e-mail from NEU stating that they received all of my paperwork and that my packet was complete. I will call and find out where they are at in their process of accepting students. By the way how is it going down there at Ft Sam so far? Busy, busy, busy I bet....well good luck and stay focused......

olderthandirt2 · Jul 12, 2009

Yes I am active duty. Thanks for the info. I recevied an e-mail from NEU stating that they received all of my paperwork and that my packet was complete. I will call and find out where they are at in their process of accepting students. By the way how is it going down there at Ft Sam so far? Busy, busy, busy I bet....well good luck and stay focused......

Hi,

Yes, I received that same "email" that everything was complete.....not to be paranoid, but ---you are Lucky if everything is complete. Unfortunately, they won't tell you otherwise unless you pester them, or wait until the "day before the board" and a they call you in a panic. As I say, this is the third time I have dealt with Graduate admission programs (2 prior MS) and rarely do things go smoothly.

USAGPAN is going GREAT!!!! It is FAR superior to civilian graduate programs. Seriously.....hands down, military graduate school is a much better experience (for me and my family)......

Pretty soon, school will be kicking into a higher gear.....

See you next year?

c.

Law-Deezie · Jul 13, 2009

Again thanx for the info. I will call them to verify one more time that everything is complete. Study hard and I will see ya soon...

SRNA4U, BSN, DNP, RN, CRNA · Sep 29, 2009

Hi Older than dirt,

It's nice to see that you have such high regards for the Army program. I know the Army is ranked #2 in the nation but you also fail to mention that the Army has an attrition rate >20%, which is higher than than the national average for CRNA schools. I also know the Army program has been slapped on the wrist by the Council of Accreditation for Anesthesia programs as a wake up call to fix their attrition rate. I am an Air Force nurse and was stationed at an Army base and have heard how the Army treat their students in Phase I. So even though the Army is ranked #2 in the nation, their attrition rate does not help them out. I know friends that were doing their Phase II at Madigan and their were several issues related to staff CRNA's and how they were training students. Basically, they weren't teaching the students but were making themselves look good at the student's expense. I have applied to USUHS anesthesia program this summer even though they are ranked around #6, the faculty actually takes the time to work with students to ensure they are successful in the program. I know the Army program has a new director this year and hopefully he will be able to turn the program around.

olderthandirt2 · Sep 30, 2009

Hi Older than dirt,
It's nice to see that you have such high regards for the Army program. I know the Army is ranked #2 in the nation but you also fail to mention that the Army has an attrition rate >20%, which is higher than than the national average for CRNA schools. I also know the Army program has been slapped on the wrist by the Council of Accreditation for Anesthesia programs as a wake up call to fix their attrition rate. I am an Air Force nurse and was stationed at an Army base and have heard how the Army treat their students in Phase I. So even though the Army is ranked #2 in the nation, their attrition rate does not help them out. I know friends that were doing their Phase II at Madigan and their were several issues related to staff CRNA's and how they were training students. Basically, they weren't teaching the students but were making themselves look good at the student's expense. I have applied to USUHS anesthesia program this summer even though they are ranked around #6, the faculty actually takes the time to work with students to ensure they are successful in the program. I know the Army program has a new director this year and hopefully he will be able to turn the program around.

No one will argue that Phase II is difficult. And you certainly have inside information regarding the program, but 20% attrition rate is not correct. Regarding attrition rate......many factors are involved in "attrition", such as family issues, not just student/instructor difficulties. The Army has a policy of "Recycling" those who need to stop Phase II clinicals for valid reasons. 2 people in my class are "restarting" their training......so Attrition rate is misleading. I can tell you many, many counselling session happen before a student decides to stop.

Regarding training, the Army does not mistreat their SRNAs, infact a current SRNA at Madigan has "requested" to stay there as an Army CRNA after his Phase II training, but that is discouraged. I think if Madigan was so awful to it's students, he would be "counting the minutes to leave", but he is not (and this is current information). It is true that Phase II directors vary in their approach to SRNAs so "generalizations" are dangerous. I can say, I visited Madigan and observed the staff CRNAs with the SRNAs, they were inpeccible with their instruction and I am requesting Madigan as my Phase II site.

You are correct, we do have a new Director and he is very protective of his students. As I have mentioned in previous posts, this is not my first rodeo with graduate school. I have 2 other Masters of Science and was 2yrs into a PhD program when I stopped to attend USAGPAN. I can say from experience, you will not find the attentativeness, or devotion to each individual student (that USAGPAN provides) at a Civilian program. I don't know about USUHS, other than SRNAs have classes with PA, and medical students. This is not the case for USAGPAN, where we have a dedicated (only to us) staff and we have a strong bond between our classmates. Our facility is brand new and we have a choice of 7 different Phase II sites, where USUHS has 2 I believe.

We have 5 Air Force students in our class, perhaps you would like to email them about your questions/opinions? They sit very close to my desk and appear very pleased with this exceptional program.......as we all are! Everyday that goes by, I think of how fortunate I am to be a part of this program.......again, I speak from experience.

good luck in your CRNA pathway,

c.

olderthandirt2 · Sep 30, 2009

After thinking about your post for a few hours, I would like to add a comment that will help civilian pre-crna to understand "the stringent clinical experience" of phase II students. Military medical soldiers already know this, so it will be redundant.......

As a military CRNA, we are expected to be able to deploy at anytime. During that deployment, you may be at a "hospital setting" or you maybe at "FST" (forward surgical team, meaning in the line of fire).

Either way, you will be expected to work upwards of 100 hrs/wk with no back-up.

We have been told this time and again from instructors (who have recently deployed).

It does the Army no good to have a CRNA that is "brittle and unfocused". As I see it, the way to insure that our stock of CRNAs are capable of working in the line of fire smoothly and safely is to make the working environment as uncomfortable as possible without causing patient harm........this is the ARMY!! :)

hrodgers · Dec 15, 2009

Law-Deezie-

I am a VA employee and currently in the application process from the 2011 USAGPAN program. I was in contact with someone actually today and was informed that you can not even begin applying for NEU until March of 2010 for the 2011 program....you are military right? I wonder if it is different??

whip65 · Dec 15, 2009

As a veteran- YES! This is the military. Do these applicants not realize this? Maybe they are so focused on becoming a CRNA that their judgement is impaired. If this is the case, maybe they are not fit to be a CRNA or soldier, let alone an officer in the United States Army.

milkman · Dec 15, 2009

Hello Holly,

I'm one of the four VA nurses admitted to the program starting in June 2010. You actually go through the same application process as the Army nurses with regards to the NEU application. Once you are accepted to NEU, which only indicates that you meet NEU's minimal requirements, your application will be evaluated by a VA panel and they will make the final selections. It's a great program and an absolutely phenomenal opportunity!! Good Luck!

olderthandirt2 · Dec 16, 2009

As a veteran- YES! This is the military. Do these applicants not realize this? Maybe they are so focused on becoming a CRNA that their judgement is impaired. If this is the case, maybe they are not fit to be a CRNA or soldier, let alone an officer in the United States Army.

Yes Whip65,

I agree. Even wearing a uniform everyday, sometimes I am so focused on my studies that I "forget" that this IS the MILTARY. Plus, They go easy on us students...........0815 report, usually dismissed at 1430.

But Then last week, I get the 0300 wake-up call to report for a "random urine sample" and then the next night get called to 0300 "manadatory H1N1 shot" which is cancelled at the last minute. Then, 2 days later--called @ 0445 for the H1N1.

And I had school tests on those early mornings.....yep, it is military.

Great education, and service too :)