anyone in australia feels that we're not learning enough?

sparklehorse · Jun 26, 2014

Are you studying at the moment? I study at QUT and am currently in their grad entry program which reduces my length of study to two years. That being said, we still complete the same amount of clinical hours (800) required by APHRA.

I suppose there has to be a balance between theory and practice. I haven't found that there has been too much theory, on the contrary I've found the theory to be much less than anticipate. Having previously studied a very theory-heavy course I am finding myself doing extra reserach in my spare time into theory. It is a requirement that we maintain theoretical underpinnings and understanding alongside evidence-based research in our practice.

Talking to nurses who went through the hospital-based system of the past I get the feeling that we are missing out on applying clinical knowledge in a timely manner. They would receive lectures in the morning then apply that knowledge by working the rest of the day. I think there has to be great benefit to that sort of learning.

I am not that far along into the course and can't say much more since I haven't experienced it all. It would be interesting to hear from someone who has gone through a course overseas and one domestically....just for comparison's sake.

OP, where are you studying?

Markbpharm · Jun 27, 2014

Nurse education has undergone many changes in the past four decades in Australia. Nurses in the 1970s and 1980s did a lot of agitating for increased pay and conditions. As part of this process education moved from full time hospital training with part time classes to a three year full time degree with part time practical. Nurses now have different expectations about their vocation than those in past generations. In particular, they seek work as 'educators', 'administrators', 'coordinators' - almost anything other than actually looking after patients! They would prefer to supervise AINs, PCAs or ENs than provide direct patient care. It is one of the reasons that our healthcare system is becoming too expensive to fund.

Walk into any large public hospital and you will see nurses gathered around the 'nurses station' chatting, or doing paperwork. In the mean time the patients are developing foot-drop and bed sores because no-one is going near them. Families come ion to shower their relatives because the nurses are 'too busy'. Here in Victoria (Australia), there is a nurse to patient ratio of one to four, but it isn't providing better nursing care to patients. The nurses are busy with paperwork instead of looking after patients - but I have come to suspect that this is what the Bachelor of Nursing graduates prefer to do anyway. If nurses were trained the way the used to be, some would drop out because they would find the workload too much. The old way of training wasn't as theoretical - it was boot camp, but it did provide nurses who were task focussed and who saw paperwork as a necessary evil and not the focus of their work.

GE90 · Jun 28, 2014

south australia

ceridwyn · Jun 29, 2014

Absolute piffile. Nurses hate, detest, paperwork and computer but need to do so beacause they need to write things down for the next shift or future shift to see what has happened to that patient and also stats etc have to be done for the employer and government for finding of their percieved high wages.

Would uou like the long dressess and the nice starched cap and apron as well? Research the papers and satistics on patient outcomes since nurses went to university and were liverated from the poor wages and abuse from patients, doctors and senior staff, because they were 18 in second year and had not finished their pill round or done the dressings or put up the next iv, patients were given wrong meds, wrong treatments because of these poor mostly girls trated like slaves and abuse. I know I was there.

Much nursing now goes on in the community, have hiu checked those nurses out as well, and their paperwork?

Thouvht this argument hospital training versus u iversity, so I ask, where the hell are nurses doing their clinical, btw FREE training? The moon or in hospitals and the ommunity.

As for fhe expense of nurses, perhaps compare to teachers or a construction worker or electrcian, plumber, lawyer male jobs and see how much thdy get paid an hour compared to an nursd. Safeway pays a 21 year old more than a 21 year old nurse graduate., or come to think of it, a nurse working nights on a weekend with 10 years experience.

Next time you apologise to the firdt nurse you see if you are ever in need or have a relo dying, and having nursing care. Shame Shame.

Fiona59 · Jun 29, 2014

I loathe the "stand around chatting" argument. Yesterday, we did stand around and chat at the station.

About the 84yo dementia patient that had just assaulted three of us. After being told by her son "oh, Mum would never do that!" While looking at the handprint on a coworker that his mother left.

Bronte03 · Jul 4, 2014

I am a EEN and we get a LOT of unfortunate remarks from our Uni students because we don't have the "knowledge" acquired by the new grads.

We have the basics and in nursing basics is what makes a ward work. It is cleaning up from every orifice in the body, it is being the RN without the degree.

Every nurse does the dirty work, we write reports, we identify co morbidities and why patient X is about to shut down. We hold hands of patients, their families and other staff members especially our new grads as they dissolve due to lack of "hands on knowledge".

Uni grads do NOT have enough clinical skills - how do I know this?

Nobody in their right mind would continue with a degree that is basically cleaning patients with endless runny yellow poo or poo that has to be identified, vomiting all over you at the beginning of a shift, changing pads that have been left too long and really there is no way to get that stuck poo off disintegrating skin. The urine that makes you want to vomit when they don't have a real bath for days. Dealing with a violent patient who punches you endlessly because they have dementia/mental health issues and all the wonderful drugs to calm them don't work anymore. I have been bitten, black eyes, been in a headlock it goes on..

Nursing is hard work for poor pay. Patient ratio's for a new grad and time management goes out the window as you have to shower, give meds within a small timeframe and then be unfortunate to have a patient collapse. Patient A (unsteady on her feet) is in the shower, B is trying to have a heart attack, D is vomiting and you are lucky C is sitting up and not demanding why he hasn't received his wheatmeal toast.

What do you do??? This is nursing and most importantly it is you by yourself dealing with 3 patients.

This is learning, this is what we do and Uni does not prepare you for these incidents.

It would be more beneficial to halve your time at uni and have 6 weeks of clinical block learning. Nurses don't have time to hold your hand and they whinge. Why wouldn't they when you cannot make a bed or know what a bedpan looks like.

If you want a friend on your ward treat an EEN very well, they will teach you about real nursing so that you can apply your skills confidently. I have spent a lot of time with students teaching them the basics. The rewards are great when we are thanked by the manager and educator.

We aren't just EEN's and nobodies, we are your support with the knowledge that you don't initially have. Common sense and the ability to deal with anything immediately will help you.

Sorry I have raved but reality is on the ward, not in the world of universities. They teach you subjects you will never need or use in the health field. More clinical skills is what you need to literally survive.

thenightnurse456 · Jul 4, 2014

I think nursing education in Australia is sub standard compared to the rigorous clinical hours needed to complete the degree in the US, Canada, UK. UK Requires triple the hours compared to Aus.

Also I agree that new nurses are coming out into the work force completely unprepared for the reality that is nursing.

A real ward/unit is completely different to the textbook fantasy perfect ward that the university teaches. Only hands on clinical hours (and lots of them) gives any student a chance of coping.

I can't believe a previous poster made comments about nurses standing around at the desk not caring for their patients.. SMH!

And let's not create an EN vs RN argument. The training and education is different. We just need to respect one another. But that argument will always exist until Aus creates a bachelors only RN work force. Like the UK did back in the 90s.

ceridwyn · Jul 5, 2014

Have you actually studied and worked and experienced the nursing care and education of all the above countries before making such sweeping generalisation statements? Amazing perhaps AHPRA is on the right track at last.

thenightnurse456 · Jul 6, 2014

Have you actually studied and worked and experienced the nursing care and education of all the above countries before making such sweeping generalisation statements? Amazing perhaps AHPRA is on the right track at last.

No but I have many friends, colleagues and family members who are nurses or nursing students from such countries. I've never had one of them tell me Australian nursing education is so much harder then their country- quite the opposite.

ceridwyn · Jul 6, 2014

Me thinks you are quite an expert then on Australian nursing, with expert advises.

Be very afraid then if when patient in hospital or in the community and approached by Australian nurse, as you do not want any sub standard care from sub standard education.

thenightnurse456 · Jul 6, 2014

Me thinks you are quite an expert then on Australian nursing, with expert advises.
Be very afraid then if when patient in hospital or in the community and approached by Australian nurse, as you do not want any sub standard care from sub standard education.

I'm not saying we Australians are bad nurses, I'm just saying the education is below that of other countries in terms of clinical hours, pre requisite courses.