i know this thread is long, but please read (if you have a moment). :bowingpur
1). i have an assignment for one of my family nurse practitioner classes, healthcare policy, that i need assistance with.
[color=#5f497a](please, anyone that can help, it will be greatly appreciated)!
2). i would love for rn’s/lpn’s in the state of tennessee to help me with this, but i also need feedback from nurses in [color=#943634]all other states who have personal experience in this area.
3). i posted a thread in the “tennessee nurses” section titled: tn nurses against proposed bill (sb 0009) for "certified medication technicians"….the link is : https://allnurses.com/tennessee-nurses/tn-nurses-against-367538.html . here you will find a great deal of information regarding this bill.
4). i have to personally write a letter to senator diane black (by march 15thish) explaining the reasons that i do not agree/support this bill.
5). on april 7th i have to go to nashville for “capitol hill day” to speak with different people in legislature regarding this bill. most of the people that i will be speaking with will be members of the “senate standing committee general welfare, health & human resources.” if you are not familiar with their role, here is a link to give a bit of info: http://www.capitol.tn.gov/senate/committees/gen-welfare.html
6). if you are from tennessee, i beg you to write to me regarding your standpoint on this issue. if you are from a state who has tried this method through a “pilot program” or if your state currently uses “certified medication technicians” i would love for you to send me any information (pro’s or con’s) on this topic.
8). i will respond to each and every private message that i get as well as every post to my tn nurses against proposed bill (sb 0009) for "certified medication technicians" link. it may take me a few days, since i have several other classes to work on as well
thank you so much for your time, i do appreciate any comments or suggestions you may have!!!
I can understand not passing off IV meds or injectable meds- but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to match up prepared med to a patient arm band after double checking a chart... Don't get me wrong- I 'get' what you're saying- and certainly the liability is less with less people involved- but the condescending attitude isn't necessary.
The solution to overworked nurses in nursing homes and/or Assisted Living Facilities, is not to employ incompetant medication aides, and put the liability for "overseeing their practice", on the overworked RNs.
If they are so shortstaffed, the nursing homes and assisted living facilities need to hire more REGISTERED NURSES OR LPN/LVNS, not de skill the practice of medication administration!!!
If we continue to allow the deskilling of our professional practice, these places WILL continue to whittle away at our professional practice until there is no reaon to hire licensed staff. Just punt the professional skills to any HS dropout!! It is bad enough, and it was not that long ago, that nursing homes pressured our elected officials to change the wording of the nurse practice acts, to read, "any licensed nurses", from "Registered Nurse", to be the senior medical person always available in nursing homes. Now an LPN/LVN, can be in charge in a nursing home, and there is NO RN on the premises.
I am adamant about this. We need to stand together and fight anymore deskilling of the nursing profession. You don't see doctors, Physical Therapist, etc, handing over their professional practice to incompetant HS dropouts, do you? Then why should nurses put up with this? I can think of no good reason, but to make it easier for nursing homes, assisted living facilities, to continue to give away our professional practice to the highest bidder. No thank you. JMHO and my NY $0.02.
Yeah- that is downright scary... I can see giving *some* meds- but anything more than a pill- and not even all pills- and I'd be absolutely opposed. I was just thinking that things like routine meds (like general maintenance meds, milder pain pills etc.) would make things alot easier if someone else were able to lend a hand at a lower pay rate. But yeah- reading that I can see the potential for abuse and insanity
Get this, I am a nursing student and a certified Med Tech for the State of Florida. I also oppose this bill as a matter of fact I stop using my certification as a Med Tech. Here is the reason why, I took this course to gain experience in the medical field. Now I was subject to a 4 hour course for 25.00 from a local pharmacy, then I went to work at a assisted living facility. In Florida Med Tech only work ALF, the trainning I receive was not appropiate to administer medication, and I did not want the responsibility of possible hurting a patient, to save the facility money.
As the law states you are suppose to assist in helping a resident take the medication, however, this often is not the case, Med Techs are actually giving insulin shots because they are afraid of loosing there 8.00 per hour job if the resident refuses to take the medication. I have seen Med Techs, give medication with no clue as to what they are giving and why. Here in GA it is even worst, the Med Techs are not even certified, when I first got hear, the director asked me do I know how to give out a piece of candy, or a asprin, when I said yes he said well it is the same thing. I dont want to be a nurse with a piece of paper giving out medication and hurting people, I want to be educated and sucessful in the care that I administer, so I have made the sacrifice to continue on with my education and when I am at a place that I have proper training I will move forward. This is my personal choice, but what about the countless others that are out here in different states giving out meds and have no clue as to what they are doing. It puts the public at risk and all for them to make 8.00 per hour and a facility to save money by paying them 8.00 per hour.
TN would be making a huge mistake, and I will be more than happy to write them and tell them this as well.
Get this, I am a nursing student and a certified Med Tech for the State of Florida. I also oppose this bill as a matter of fact I stop using my certification as a Med Tech. Here is the reason why, I took this course to gain experience in the medical field. Now I was subject to a 4 hour course for 25.00 from a local pharmacy, then I went to work at a assisted living facility. In Florida Med Tech only work ALF, the trainning I receive was not appropiate to administer medication, and I did not want the responsibility of possible hurting a patient, to save the facility money.
As the law states you are suppose to assist in helping a resident take the medication, however, this often is not the case, Med Techs are actually giving insulin shots because they are afraid of loosing there 8.00 per hour job if the resident refuses to take the medication. I have seen Med Techs, give medication with no clue as to what they are giving and why. Here in GA it is even worst, the Med Techs are not even certified, when I first got hear, the director asked me do I know how to give out a piece of candy, or a asprin, when I said yes he said well it is the same thing. I dont want to be a nurse with a piece of paper giving out medication and hurting people, I want to be educated and sucessful in the care that I administer, so I have made the sacrifice to continue on with my education and when I am at a place that I have proper training I will move forward. This is my personal choice, but what about the countless others that are out here in different states giving out meds and have no clue as to what they are doing. It puts the public at risk and all for them to make 8.00 per hour and a facility to save money by paying them 8.00 per hour.
TN would be making a huge mistake, and I will be more than happy to write them and tell them this as well.
You are wise beyond your job title. You will make an excellent nurse with good critical thinking skills. Do everything in your power to move on in the nursing field.
I can understand not passing off IV meds or injectable meds- but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to match up prepared med to a patient arm band after double checking a chart... Don't get me wrong- I 'get' what you're saying- and certainly the liability is less with less people involved- but the condescending attitude isn't necessary .
Gotta disagree with you here. If you think, really think that it's ok for a non licensed person to pass any kind of med so that we can save money then the condescending attitude IS necessary!
You aren't a nurse. What role are you? A nursing student?
I'm horrified that any nurse or nursing student would think this is best practice.
You're right on one thing though, it doens't take a rocket scientist to pass meds. It takes a NURSE.
Apparantly it's not that far fetched given that they train people to do it.
The condescending attitude that I speak of is calling people incompetant when the issue is more a legal liability issue than a competancy issue. One might very well be fully competant to dispense predrawn meds. The issue is whether it's a good idea legally and what the benefit/risk ratio is all around. Had you explained this in a sensible manner (as I hadn't made up my mind about it- which is why I was asking the questions) rather than talking down and speaking badly of an entire group of people (good idea that they be doing it or not) then OK, fine. However- this attitude from nurses is why alot of people don't want to go into nursing- (calling people incompetant high school dropouts is hardly professional) and why alot of students/CNAs/etc. can't stand to work with (some) nurses.
Gotta disagree with you here. If you think, really think that it's ok for a non licensed person to pass any kind of med so that we can save money then the condescending attitude IS necessary!
You aren't a nurse. What role are you? A nursing student?
I'm horrified that any nurse or nursing student would think this is best practice.
You're right on one thing though, it doens't take a rocket scientist to pass meds. It takes a NURSE.
Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
I am in Texas, a state where medication aides are widely used in nursing homes and assisted living facilities.
One of my workplaces, a nursing home, was very recently fined over $100,000 by the state over a patient death last month. The resident died of Coumadin toxicity, and had a hemoglobin level of 4.0 shortly before her death. She was bleeding out of every orifice by the time an ICU bed became available.
And guess who was continuing to administer her Coumadin, despite an order from her attending physician to hold this medication? The medication aides!
Were these aides not trained to look at the chart for the doctor's orders? Was the issue the aides or the lack of training/communication? Is the issue aides in general or lack of training/stressing of procedures? *curious*
I am in Texas, a state where medication aides are widely used in nursing homes and assisted living facilities.
One of my workplaces, a nursing home, was very recently fined over $100,000 by the state over a patient death last month. The resident died of Coumadin toxicity, and had a hemoglobin level of 4.0 shortly before her death. She was bleeding out of every orifice by the time an ICU bed became available.
And guess who was continuing to administer her Coumadin, despite an order from her attending physician to hold this medication? The medication aides!
Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
Were these aides not trained to look at the chart for the doctor's orders? Was the issue the aides or the lack of training/communication? Is the issue aides in general or lack of training/stressing of procedures? *curious*
In the state where I reside, medication aides are not taught to monitor for adverse reactions related to receiving anticoagulant therapies such as Coumadin, aspirin, Plavix, etc. They are not trained to interpret and know the significance of important lab values such as PT/INR, CBC, CMP, thyroid profiles, etc.
How can a person safely administer high-risk drugs such as anticoagulants and oral hypoglycemics if they have not learned to monitor for the many possible adverse reactions that may result?
In the state where I reside, medication aides are not taught to monitor for adverse reactions related to receiving anticoagulant therapies such as Coumadin, aspirin, Plavix, etc. They are not trained to interpret and know the significance of important lab values such as PT/INR, CBC, CMP, thyroid profiles, etc.
How can a person safely administer high-risk drugs such as anticoagulants and oral hypoglycemics if they have not learned to monitor for the many possible adverse reactions that may result?
This is why I am wondering- because it seems that in the areas where med techs are utilized- the monitoring is done by the nurse- the techs seem to just save the time it would otherwise take the nurse to go room to room handing out said meds- If the nurse prepares and monitors- I'm not getting the problem- (unless they aren't taught to check the chart...) Of course- I see it from the time saving aspect as well as the potential increased legal liability angle- so I'm not sold either way on it- (so unlike some, please don't assume I'm arguing 'for' the practice- I'm really just trying to figure out the pros/cons :) )
Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
This is why I am wondering- because it seems that in the areas where med techs are utilized- the monitoring is done by the nurse- the techs seem to just save the time it would otherwise take the nurse to go room to room handing out said meds- If the nurse prepares and monitors- I'm not getting the problem- (unless they aren't taught to check the chart...) Of course- I see it from the time saving aspect as well as the potential increased legal liability angle- so I'm not sold either way on it- (so unlike some, please don't assume I'm arguing 'for' the practice- I'm really just trying to figure out the pros/cons :) )
In the state where I reside, the medication aide pours the pills into the cup and hands them to the appropriate patient. The nurse is not involved in the administration of oral and topical medications.
In all of the places where I've been employed that utilize med aides, the nurses do not set up, pour, prepare, or administer pills. The nurses focus on vital signs, blood glucose monitoring, wound care, injections, IV meds, assessments, respiratory therapy, admissions, discharges, and so forth.
The problem I have experience with Med Tech's is that most Med Techs I worked with do not have a heart for nursing or want to do things correctly.
Now this can be a blind statement because it really dosn't speak for all Med Tech's and it is simple my experience. However, I will say this, the playing field is not even, when you are a nurse even a CNA which is a nurse Tech. you have a certain amount of time invested into your training, and then you have a board that holds you accountable, so if this was about patient care, then I would be all for it but then again there would be better training for Med Tech's this however, is not the case.
Thus, when we speak of Med Techs being unskilled, I say, you have to care enough to want to be skilled. I would not put someone else life on the line to make an extra 8.00 per hour that is just crazy.
Yeah, I don't like the idea of med techs. Its just another way for administration to hire someone for less pay so that they don't need to hire more nurses. It really grinds my stone. I think it's sad that many places are resorting to such a dangerous thing. My concern is, what happens if the wrong patient gets the wrong meds? Whose fault is it, the nurse or the med aide? And surely administration wouldn't take responsiblity, it would be the nurse who would be liable.
Equinox_93
528 Posts
I can understand not passing off IV meds or injectable meds- but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to match up prepared med to a patient arm band after double checking a chart... Don't get me wrong- I 'get' what you're saying- and certainly the liability is less with less people involved- but the condescending attitude isn't necessary.