We were discussing the Disneryland measles outbreak at work, and I was appalled to find some of my co-workers refuse to vaccinate their kids. They (grudgingly) receive the vaccines they need to remain employed, but doubt their safety/necessity for their kids.
I must say, I am absolutley stunned. How can one be a nurse and deny science?
As a nurse, you should darn well know what the scientific method entails and what phrases such as "evidence based" and "peer reviewed" mean.
I have to say, I have lost most of my respect for the nurses and mistrust their judgement; after all, if they deny science, on what premise are they basing their practices?
If a person wants to have the right to not vaccinate their children, fine. But the children who are too young or suffer from immuno-compromised systems (like many of the children who are my patients) have a right to be safe in school and the community. The anti-vax families need to keep their children at home. Measles would most certainly be a death sentence for many of my patients.
Sending unvaccinated children to school or other public places to possibly infect vulnerable populations of children is just as inconsiderate and irresponsible as a person lighting up a cigarette and blowing smoke in a place where there might be people who have lung diseases and severe smoke allergies. Just darned inconsiderate and selfish.
I do have to agree with this. It would be nice if there was some sort of alternative school for these children....but what about other public places? The park? Waiting rooms? Etc.
I do have to agree with this. It would be nice if there was some sort of alternative school for these children....but what about other public places? The park? Waiting rooms? Etc.
It is all good until the antivaxxers sue the government when the mandated "anti-vaxxer" school suffers 1% mortality from a rubella outbreak. "It wouldn't have happened if my child could have been surrounded by all those vaccinated kids!"
Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.
The only difference between the two is that you seem to be opposed to injecting a vaccine while you don't seem to be opposed to driving safely.
I on the other hand have no problems injecting a safe vaccine that will save lives (and also protect myself), but find it a hardship and a huge infringement on my personal freedom, to be forced to drive so darn slow just because someone decided to build a school by the road...
Don't you see, both actions (or inactions) have the potential to harm others.
We all place different values on different things. Getting vaccinated isn't inherently a "bigger sacrifice" in order to promote the greater good for society as a whole, than slowing down while driving is. It depends on who you ask.
I don't think that the statement that you create a more dangerous environment for others if you don't vaccinate your children is an opinion, it is a fact. Just as I would be creating a dangerous environment for others if I actually chose to give in to my speed demon urges, instead of making the wise and responsible choice to respect the speed limit.
There is a big difference in injecting something jato the body and driving down the road. There just is.
There is a big difference in injecting something jato the body and driving down the road. There just is.
Well, there obviously is to you. The fact that that is how you feel doesn't mean that everyone else on the planet feels the same way. And it's not a question of injecting
a substance, any random substance, into your body. We are discussing specific and tested vaccines.
The point I was trying to make, is that most of us will do things for the greater good. To what degree we perceive them as great sacrifices or curtailment of personal freedom, will vary between different individuals due to many factors. There is no absolute truth here, there just isn't
I trust the research and epedemiological data I've seen and I regard vaccines as beneficial life-savers. With that in mind, perhaps you can understand why I don't
think that it's much of an imposition for me to take them.
My child can recover from measles (has had it, in fact) but can't recover from Autism. He has celiac's disease and his ND and I do not feel that it would be in his best interests to vaccinate due to an increased risk of additional autoimmune disease.
What I find appalling is that so few nurses understand the immune system and just act as yes men for the CDC and physicians. I blame nursing schools. Fortunately I have background other than nursing and understand that we have a CELLULAR response to all bugs we come into contact with. As I've stated in other posts on vaccination, nurses who don't understand the difference between humeral and cellular response, differences in immune response to organisms based on genetics, the ACTUAL EFFICACY rates of vaccination, and how to recognize "at-risk" populations for vaccination reaction, including autoimmune response DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO PREACH VACCINATION FOR ANYONE ELSE'S CHILD. Every time I read one of these posts, I realize how many nurses have no idea what they're talking about. Please don't act as my nurse- I don't need a robot.
My child can recover from measles (has had it, in fact) but can't recover from Autism.
And everyone stopped listening to you right there.
You are part of the problem, implying that association, which was never proven and has been repeatedly disproven.
Former-doctor Andrew Wakefield singlehandedly created more suffering, illness, and death among children in the last 15 years than any other individual in the Western World. But, he couldn't have done it without help.
You are helping him, not humanity. Nobody is going to listen to your protestations about how we are all robots slaves while you have some special knowledge that all other nurses are ignorant of.
Do you vaccinate your pets? If you don't you cannot place your pet in day care, or board them in a facility, because of the danger that other pets will get sick from your un-vaccinated pet.
Imagine that.
The risk for un vaccinated children is too high for you to stand on a soap box, and defend YOUR right not to vaccinate your children.
You have exaggerated the risk of vaccines, and down played the risk your children pose to others, who are either too young, or individuals who for what ever reason are immuno-compromised.
My aunt never had the chicken pox as a child, strange as, she is over 80 years old. She is a person who would die if she got the chicken pox from some non immunized child. She also has Myasthenia Gravis, which puts her at great risk if she got the Chicken Pox from your child.
The, "herd immunity", is a proven factor that prevents epidemics of the past from happening now. The Spanish Influenza epidemic occurred in 1918. Millions died of it world wide, including my grandmother's pregnant sister, and her sister's husband, orphaning her 18 month old niece. Thanks to misguided parents, we are one generation away from the epidemics that claimed millions, less than a century ago. Their blood will be on your hands.
Its like an echo chamber in here... no differences in opinion please- one must join the herd or be ridiculed.
There seem to be very few nurses who are completely anti-vax, most of us live in the messy grey area of real life with real people and real cultural beliefs....
Accepting the reality of the public health situation would be much more effective than ridiculing people and insulting them. Listen with an open mind, maybe find a compromise- this does not have to be an all or nothing situation- medical professionals either can't or won't have an honest discussion with patients on this topic- instead most chant the words of our corporate health corporations.
FYI- I did not ridicule or insult anyone. I stated fact. Period.
If someone gets their knickers in a wad, because they do not want to listen to logic, than so be it.
At least my kids are fully vaccinated, and then some, and will not get measles, etc. And they don't even have autism. Neither do MILLIONS of children who have been vaccinated. Imagine that.
An astrophysicists forum might sound like an "echo chamber" if someone started a thread about "young earth creationist scientists."
Sure, there is room for discussion when we debate public health versus personal freedom, less so when the choice that is dangerous-to-public is the choice unsupported by evidence.
There is no room for compromise when people perpetuate fear-based misinformation like the falsehood that autism is related to vaccines.
FYI- I did not ridicule or insult anyone. I stated fact. Period.
If someone gets their knickers in a wad, because they do not want to listen to logic, than so be it.
At least my kids are fully vaccinated, and then some, and will not get measles, etc. And they don't even have autism. Neither do MILLIONS of children who have been vaccinated. Imagine that.
You may be stating "fact", but you are doing it in a way that is condescending. Period.
RNnursebetty
21 Posts
If a person wants to have the right to not vaccinate their children, fine. But the children who are too young or suffer from immuno-compromised systems (like many of the children who are my patients) have a right to be safe in school and the community. The anti-vax families need to keep their children at home. Measles would most certainly be a death sentence for many of my patients.
Sending unvaccinated children to school or other public places to possibly infect vulnerable populations of children is just as inconsiderate and irresponsible as a person lighting up a cigarette and blowing smoke in a place where there might be people who have lung diseases and severe smoke allergies. Just darned inconsiderate and selfish.
I do have to agree with this. It would be nice if there was some sort of alternative school for these children....but what about other public places? The park? Waiting rooms? Etc.