Another "Find Your Own Preceptor" Thread

[Angeljho]

Has there been any changes lately when it comes to finding your own preceptors for NP school? Is it easier now? More difficult? No change?

I was accepted into a distance ed PMHNP program (with campus visits) and will start the summer semester in a couple of weeks. However, they do NOT arrange preceptors and I have only encountered resistance thus far, even with placement sites that have contracts with my school. I don't want to be bothered with this once school starts and I get into the bulk of my studies. I should have done my research, so it's my fault.

I also applied to a traditional school which does work with their students to arrange preceptors. I haven't received notification of acceptance or rejection yet. If I'm accepted, I might withdraw from the distance ed program to save me some headache. This is why I want to know if there are any changes when it comes to finding preceptors.

[TachyNurseGuy]

Actually many brick and mortar schools do not provide clinical preceptors either; although I'm unsure, from what I've heard I believe this is more the norm than not. In my home state (AZ) GCU, U0fP and NAU do not for sure. I spent a LOT of time finding/attempting to find preceptors. Sadly most NP's did not reply and the few that did were unable for various reasons. I have one NP preceptor so far, that Advanced Prep (paid service that pays NP's found)..the rest are physicians. The MD's for the most part were much more accommodating and ready (without reservations) to accept students. The Physicians are also doing it gratus. I'm eating truck loads of crow for all the crap I have talked about Doctors these days...

That last bit is the most disturbing and discouraging to me (the APN's who dont take students)....I'm a nurse and I believe in what we do. Frankly, I think in general we have a noble profession and less economically driven than the medical discipline. But the way we treat students (NP students, RN students...Students) is somewhat appalling. When I became an RN, I was told that part of this was agreeing to teach, both patients and students. We teach students as part of our code of conduct and in efforts to carry forward our discipline. As an RN, I personally have done this and I will do it as an NP as well. Newboy, there are multiple services popping up like Advanced Prep, that pay preceptors for services; if this is what it takes then do it, but again...I think we have to ask ourselves, do we want respect for our discipline? The majority of students that make it as far as clinicals in an accredited NP program will pass boards at some point, so they will be your peers whether you like it or not. If you agree with this, then how would you like your peers to be educated? If you don't like the what you are seeing, this is the time to change it.

Just my 0.02 and if I survive another year...contact me if you need an FNP preceptor in AZ and I will help you.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

Just playing devils advocate hear... but poor NP students, will still most likely end up being board certified NPs, whether we all like it or not.

So wouldn't it be better to try and ensure peers are better quality by helping them learn?

Yes, finding preceptors is quite challenging btw. Many NPs dont want to take students, because they have had bad experiences. Both the quality of students and the quality of the NPs they become (as they tend to find poor preceptors) will probably suffer; so it makes sense that the discipline will suffer as a whole. self perpetuating scenario imo.

nurses eat our young...������

Actually if the poor programs and poor students don't find preceptors they can't graduate and they can take the national certifying exams.

This is not a matter of nurses eating their young. It is absolutely a matter of NPs investing in studnets that invest in themselves. Precepting takes time out of preceptors days, exposes patients to additional times/questioning/exams, and ultimately puts the patients at risk. Accepting a poor student, in the end, hurts my patients and my bottom line.

If I wanted to eat my young I would take them all and fail them all.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

I think if NP preceptors were compensated for their time, it would make a world of difference. Over and over, I hear the major complaint is that NPs are expected to precept for free and it's more than just extra work for them. But then there's still the problem of NPs having too many students already. Honestly, I think we wouldn't be having this problem if NP schools didn't transfer over to the online scene. Even online schools that are in the same state as the student don't provide those students with preceptors, which is my dilemma.

Pay to play is a dangerous concept and it rewards the wrong programs. The one student I end aay on the first day came with a $2500 pay check: it wasn't worth it.

IMHO, no studennt should attend a program that makes them find their own preceptors. Research has demonstrated that the preceptors play a key role in production of quality providers and any program willing to concede control of that doe snot have the student's (or profession's) best interest at heart.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

The MD's for the most part were much more accommodating and ready (without reservations) to accept students.

contact me if you need an FNP preceptor in AZ and I will help you.

NPs should have the majority of their clinic time with other NPs. There are nuances to the role that experience NP can provide that our physician colleagues cannot. MDs do seem to have a desire to teach, its a huge part of their educaiton and training, and many that are not attendings in a residency program will have a desire to take on students. They appreciate that it is part of an important process. Most good NPs do too; the limiting factor is often the productivity demand.

It's great you are eager and willing to teach, but please, don't take a preceptee until you have been in practice at least 18 months!

[TachyNurseGuy]

Actually if the poor programs and poor students don't find preceptors they can't graduate and they can take the national certifying exams.

This is not a matter of nurses eating their young. It is absolutely a matter of NPs investing in studnets that invest in themselves. Precepting takes time out of preceptors days, exposes patients to additional times/questioning/exams, and ultimately puts the patients at risk. Accepting a poor student, in the end, hurts my patients and my bottom line.

If I wanted to eat my young I would take them all and fail them all.

I'm with Walden..I have a 4.0 and start clinicals next month. Does this qualify as another poor program that does not supply preceptors?

[TachyNurseGuy]

Also, how does the time and sacrifice differ from my work in precepting critical care nurses and ER nurses? Why is it that my MD preceptors do not share this idea that students reflect their own practice?

[TachyNurseGuy]

NPs should have the majority of their clinic time with other NPs. There are nuances to the role that experience NP can provide that our physician colleagues cannot. MDs do seem to have a desire to teach, its a huge part of their educaiton and training, and many that are not attendings in a residency program will have a desire to take on students. They appreciate that it is part of an important process. Most good NPs do too; the limiting factor is often the productivity demand.

It's great you are eager and willing to teach, but please, don't take a preceptee until you have been in practice at least 18 months!

How do we get NP preceptors if they are unwilling to take us, because they feel students of thier own discipline are poor and the educational system for APNs in also poor? This leaves us with MD's, DO's & PA's or am I missing something?

[PhillyRNtoBe]

How do we get NP preceptors if they are unwilling to take us, because they feel students of thier own discipline are poor and the educational system for APNs in also poor? This leaves us with MD's, DO's & PA's or am I missing something?

And this is why my entire family is begging me to become a Physician assistant instead of taking the NP route.

I've ignored the naysayers and continue to pursue nursing but it's frightening to hear how difficult it is for so many who choose nursing to build a reputable career compared to

other medical fields.

[TachyNurseGuy]

Yes... its sadly getting hard for me to disagree with the PA thing. Im not a fan, but I can cert see the benefits

[AnnaN5]

Unfortunately people should not pursue schools that provide no assistance in finding preceptors. I went to an in state school's hybrid program. We had topic feelers out for preceptors but they had a long list of preceptors that have been used in the past and were willing to take students. I lived on the opposite side of the state of the university so they didn't have many existing agreements with preceptors on my side of the state but were very helpful with resources and setting up the contracts. I used a large health system they had never used before so the contracting back and forth between the school & system's legal departments took awhile but I didn't have to do anything with that piece.

For the students who have to find their own preceptors, does your school contract with the provider/office/health system?

[Jules A, MSN]

It's great you are eager and willing to teach, but please, don't take a preceptee until you have been in practice at least 18 months!

Or be so certain you will be willing to take on every NP student who asks you until you are walking in our shoes.

[Jules A, MSN]

Frankly, I think in general we have a noble profession and less economically driven than the medical discipline.

And this is why so many NPs are working for little more than RNs. I am every bit as financially driven as any doc you will find and make no apologies. The best NPs I know are able to command a respectable salary, set limits and treat this profession as a business which it is, imo.