Andrea Yates R.N.

Country PICU · Jul 28, 2006

I think it shows just how screwed up our legal system is. When a person can kill 5 childern and not get death or at least life in prison. She should be in jail!

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Jul 28, 2006

Sadly, many here do not understand psychosis. I would expect this from the general public. I would expect better from health care providers.

NJNursing, ASN, RN · Jul 28, 2006

Hmmmm, what I'm really trying to say isn't conveying well. Such is the downside of message boards.

I could see if she was having a psychotic moment and killed one child. But why did not rational thought kick in after that before the 2nd, or 3rd, 4th, or 5th. THEN she had the rational thought to call 9-1-1 - how very considerate of her. So she was considered psychotic to have killed 5, but not psychotic because she *suddenly* had a conscience after the fact to notify the authorities? Everything was too calculated for it to be really psychotic. I've done psych rotations in a facility that houses the criminally insane. None of them went on to kill several people at once. Usually it was one, maybe 2 (if it was man/woman or a wrong place/wrong time person there), but in her case all of the things just don't add up completely.

Yes, she's insane. She's insane for doing what she did in the manner that she did, but I don't believe she was completely *psychotic* during the murder of all 5 children and that STILL doesn't excuse our legal system to basically allow her to hang out in a "club med" while she gets "therapy" for why she did this. What a slap in the face to the memories of those children..........

A sad day it is. :scrying:

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand your reasoning. Okay, so you agree she was psychotic. That being the case, if you could see her drowning one child, I don't understand how you can't see her drowning all five. All five deaths were part of the same action, the one you're agreeing was committed while she was psychotic. What happened to those children is tragic beyond comprehension. It doesn't dishonor their memory in any way to acknowledge what drove their mother to do such an unthinkable thing to them. To the contrary, justice is about finding the truth. If the fact that she did this was enough to hang her from the rafters, there'd have been no need for a trial in the first place. In civilized societies, courts of law weigh all the facts- not just the degree of tragedy resulting from one's actions.

tryingtomakeit, RN · Jul 28, 2006

I know you guys are going to think I'm crazy for posting this, but I don't understand the definition of "insanity". I have often thought about this when I would hear about cases such as this. I guess this is what I am trying to say - How could anyone commit such an act and not be insane? Or any murder for that fact (of course other than self defense). Even the scum who hires someone to kill his wife for insurance purposes would, in my book, have serious mental issues. Does that make sense to anyone other me? I am honestly not trying to make light of this in any way. I am just confused.

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Jul 28, 2006

I know you guys are going to think I'm crazy for posting this, but I don't understand the definition of "insanity". I have often thought about this when I would hear about cases such as this. I guess this is what I am trying to say - How could anyone commit such an act and not be insane? Or any murder for that fact (of course other than self defense). Even the scum who hires someone to kill his wife for insurance purposes would, in my book, have serious mental issues. Does that make sense to anyone other me? I am honestly not trying to make light of this in any way. I am just confused.

This is actually a very very good question. Many jurisdictions define "insanity" as a psychological state where one cannot distinguish right from wrong. Your average rapist or murderer fully understands that what they are doing is wrong but doesn't care.

Andrea Yates was in a delusional state where she believed that she was possessed by satan. She followed the teachings of a horrible preacher who taught that it would be better for a child to die before the age of acccountability if the child has been raised wrong and may go in a non-christian direction. The age of accountability is the age God considers the child responsible for his/her actions and determines if the person goes to heaven or hell. Since I was raised among fundamentalist nutcakes I can actually follow this line of thought and understand how/why she believed this. She believed that she had ruined her children. In her delusional state (plus add her satanic hallucinations) she thought that the only way to save her children from hell was to kill them before the age of accountability. Imagine if you are a sick sick woman, recently removed from your haldol that worked so nicely and you are hallucinating and you worry that you are possessed by satan. You believe that your children are going to go to hell (literally!) if you don't save them from it. In her delusion she believed she was doing the right thing by killing them. Astonishing, I know.

sanctuary, BSN, MSN, RN · Jul 28, 2006

I know you guys are going to think I'm crazy for posting this, but I don't understand the definition of "insanity". I have often thought about this when I would hear about cases such as this. I guess this is what I am trying to say - How could anyone commit such an act and not be insane? Or any murder for that fact (of course other than self defense). Even the scum who hires someone to kill his wife for insurance purposes would, in my book, have serious mental issues. Does that make sense to anyone other me? I am honestly not trying to make light of this in any way. I am just confused.

As a legal term, insanity, in most states, means that the person's behavior was directly related to the delusional thinking. Texas has a more simplistic one, in defining sanity as "knowing right from wrong." Not guilty by reason of insanity means that the action, while against the law, was driven by the psychosis. I have worked with 2 patients who pulled out an eye, because of that passage in the Bible that says, "If thy right eye offends thee, pluck it out and cast it forth." I had a patient who cut off his right hand with a circular saw, related to the same passage. I've had 3 males who each cut off his member from the same biblical direction. I had a woman who killed both of her daughters to keep the world from hurting them. All the behavior was specifically related to psychotic thinking. They each knew what they were doing. It is the "why" that makes it insane.

mysticalwaters1 · Jul 28, 2006

Sadly, many here do not understand psychosis. I would expect this from the general public. I would expect better from health care providers.

I'm flabbergasted at this exact point! I don't deal with psychiatric pts much but I really thought more nurses would support this woman for treatment and insane. Other things as well I've been surprised with responses here such as openly reporting to police about drug alcohol levels prior to the police asking for legal ones which my hospital requires. I mean I came to this messageboard to discuss and read what other nurses think and find lots of times I'm complete opposite. I don't mean it harshly but some are not nurses posting here. NOT that you can't just I can't help but notice that but it's nurses too. I mean disagreements happen with anyone just I though specifically with a case like this more support to get this woman treatment. Not condone her actions by anymean but did you see some of the newly released video tape of her? It's the prosicution I thought a psycologist somebody psych asking her how she felt and what was going on. The tape suposedly press shows or rather suggests however way you look at it she was not insane. But makes no sense to me. She reported hallucinating, and seeing, and feeling her flesh peel off of herself. Now is she acting? Well she's a pretty good actress then. She appears devasted at herself, remorsefu for herself, yet also for her kids too.

mysticalwaters1 · Jul 28, 2006

I mentioned way earlier with no proof whatsoever but something did not feel right about her husband and appeared to me (NO PROOF) didn't help his wife much....well the press this morning on abc like 4am that showed some video tape after Yates was medicated proceded to show clips of this preacher and state her husband introduced her to that preacher. I mean that could mean lots of things did he just introduce as mention or did he believe it who knows but geeze wow that preacher guy was scary

Andrea Yates was in a delusional state where she believed that she was possessed by satan. She followed the teachings of a horrible preacher who taught that it would be better for a child to die before the age of acccountability if the child has been raised wrong and may go in a non-christian direction.

People seem to feel she knew what she was doing and don't pay attention to this preacher thing or seem to feel she's using it free herself but my gosh I don't work with psych pts much but some of the worse cases, including a crazy aunt in my family the religious issue psych pts where the worse to treat or even to deal with. My aunt I mean totally focused on her religion and almost to the point of physically abusive if you disagreed with her thinking.

mysticalwaters1 · Jul 28, 2006

I could see if she was having a psychotic moment and killed one child. But why did not rational thought kick in after that before the 2nd, or 3rd, 4th, or 5th.

So after killing one or two people you come out of psychosis? How can that work definitely? Each person I would think is different.

jodyangel, RN · Jul 28, 2006

You cannot presume to think that I'm not empathetic or caring towards my patients. This is COMPLETELY different. I'm going into maternity. I've had my own bouts with depression and anxiety - but I was smart enought to get myself help and medicated. Of course I was no where near hurting anyone. I was just miserable myself.
I may end up helping to deliver the babies of people who have previously harmed children, but I'm sure their faces won't be plastered over every single paper or news station all over the country and in a workplace setting, personal beliefs need to be set aside - the patient comes first.
This is SOOOO not the same thing. This is a woman who CHASED down her children with them screaming, crying and wondering why the person they loved and trusted most in the world was forcing them to a terrifying end. To heck with Andrea Yates, put yourself in the shoes of thie children and imagine what a horrifying day that was - especially for the 2 that were last - they had a cognitive idea as to what was going to happen and that had to be worst of all.

AMEN!!! Imagine what those poor children went through. Yes she chased them around the yard before killing them. I was shocked to hear that Andrea got the sentence she did. I was at work when it came over the TV and all the nurses felt the same. Wrong decision.

DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN · Jul 28, 2006

Rusty Yates said "yes I knew she was psychotic". Then leaves his children in her care. That's alike to leaving your children with a known pedafile or child murderer. He needs some punishment dished out to him. In the first place he should of been wearing condoms!

LydiaNN · Jul 28, 2006

AMEN!!! Imagine what those poor children went through. Yes she chased them around the yard before killing them. I was shocked to hear that Andrea got the sentence she did. I was at work when it came over the TV and all the nurses felt the same. Wrong decision.

Never mind........