Amiodarone and Cardizem drip??

Specialties Emergency

Published

I had an elderly patient a few nights ago that was in sustained SVT with a heart rate in the 160's. It wouldn't respond to two diltiazem boluses or a metoprolol bolus. (I had Glucagon and Calcium at bedside...ya never know!)

Anyway, the admitting doc ordered a cardizem titration drip. I spent a little time upping the rate until I hit the max of 15 mg/hr. That d*** heart rate still wouldn't go down. I got new orders for a Amiodarone drip, but I only had one line. She was an extremely hard stick and the whole ER was taking turns. As she was starting to deteriorate, I called the pharmacy to find out if I could piggyback it while looking for another line and was told I couldn't because the was not enough information on the compatiblities. While this patient was CTD, a new hire RN orientee said that she used to do it in the ICU she worked at all the time, and that it should be okay.

Would you guys have taken the chance on piggybacking those meds because of the pt's condition?

(A little more information: BNP 2200, Elevated cardiac enzymes, WBC 24, lungs filling, and sats out at 92% on NRB. Doc wouldn't order for a central line to be placed by the ED physician.)

I have been tossing this one around in my head for the past couple of days trying to figure out what I could have done to improve on the patient's care.

Swtooth, I agree, I think sync cardioversion shoul have been initiated in this case, I wonder why the MD didn't do it. Also, as for the betablocker, and calcium channel blocker at the same time, I was pretty wary about that as well, and had the ER Doc in the room when it was given.

Her BP remained around 140/90 pretty much the whole time.

Specializes in Emergency & Trauma/Adult ICU.
Did someone say syncronyzed cardioversion? If this patietn was filling up secondary to her HR and not vise versa, this should have been concidered. A little sedation and electricity can go a long way.

Also I am wondering if the HR may have been caused by this patients heart failure (and possible fever related to elevated WBC) rather than the heart failure being caused by the HR...And that woudl explain why the rate would be refractory to medications. In that case one would need to treat the respiratory problem first. Sounds like this patient had CHF with pneumonia. This patient may have been a chronic a-fibber who only had an uncontrolled ventricular rate becuase hypoxemia and possible fever.

From my experience when a patient is refractory to meds it is because their heart rate is compensating for something else. Also it is a bad idea to give someone in heart failure cardizem especially, and beta blockers should be withheld during the acute phases (ie. when their lungs are full), amiodarone can also further decrease cardiac output..

Swtooth

Agree.

OP, you did the best you could under the circumstances. I'm unsettled by the lack of a central line and the lack of attempt at cardioversion.

Specializes in ED, Pedi Vasc access, Paramedic serving 6 towns.

Adenosine DOES NOT work for afib/flutter.

Swtooth

true enough swtooth, although i have to say that I couldn't tell that it was afib/flutter with RVR until after the rate was slowed down. All I could tell you was that it was fast, (in the neighborhood of 160), narrow, and at that time the R to R was regular. BTW I really appreciate all of the feedback that I am getting. It really helps to listen and learn from other, experienced emergency health care providers.

Just finished ACLS this afternoon - glad to get that done and overwith - anyway....

They were pretty hip on if you can't get a line in, pop in and IO - works just as well as an IV. They told us about an IO 'gun' that just shoots it right into the bone so none of the pushing and screwing to get it in - just aim and shoot. The instructor is a flight nurse and claims to be able to get an IO in, flushed and ready to go in less than 30 seconds.

If you couldn't run the two drugs together and he wouldn't order a central line that might have been an option.

BTW, great timing for a great discussion :monkeydance:

Specializes in CVICU, MICU, CCRN-CSC.
Did someone say syncronyzed cardioversion? If this patietn was filling up secondary to her HR and not vise versa, this should have been concidered. A little sedation and electricity can go a long way. ALTHOUGH I THINK IN THIS PATIENT"S CASE IT WAS HER/HIS RESPIRATORY STATUS CAUSING THE INCREASED HR AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

Also I am wondering if the HR may have been caused by this patients heart failure (and possible fever related to elevated WBC) rather than the heart failure being caused by the HR...And that woudl explain why the rate would be refractory to medications. In that case one would need to treat the respiratory problem first. Sounds like this patient had CHF with pneumonia. This patient may have been a chronic a-fibber who only had an uncontrolled ventricular rate becuase hypoxemia and possible fever.

From my experience when a patient is refractory to meds it is because their heart rate is compensating for something else. Also it is a bad idea to give someone in heart failure cardizem especially, and beta blockers should be withheld during the acute phases (ie. when their lungs are full), amiodarone can also further decrease cardiac output..

Swtooth

I was wondering why they did not push adenocard and/or cardiovert too...Only knowing the few facts...sounds like a cardioversion day to me!!!

We have an EP guy and we do controlled cardioversion all the time!!

Maybe some lasix was in order. I have been burned on cardizem with a CHF patient. Our thoracic surgeons HATE Cardizem becasue of the decompensation it can cause.

Specializes in ER, HH, Case Management.

Did you know when the onset of afib was? The reason I ask, isn't cardioversion contraindicated if the onset of the afib is unkown? This is due to the risk of throwing clots and then PE.

Was it a teaching hospital? I have found that in most private hospitals you have to beg, borrow, cheat, and steal to get a central line put in.

Specializes in ICU.

Sounds to me like a combo of both failure and sepsis. Why no Dig? Works great for a-fib, increases co, slows the rate. We use it frequently for a-fib c rvr.

Specializes in ER, Occ Health.

My question would be if the Diltiazem did not work in the bolus doses why would you being starting a drip. The SVT was obviously not responding to this drug. WHy did they not try Adenosine? I know we all hate to push the Adensoine but if everything else had failed it seems the logical alternative?

Specializes in ED, Pedi Vasc access, Paramedic serving 6 towns.

If cardizem didn't convert it Adenosine isn't going to either. You have a better chance of converting with cardizem than with adenosine and adenosine has about a six second slowing of the ventricular rate in afib/flutter and thats it. Cardizem wont convert afib/flutter, it only slows the ventricular rate; However cardizem will convert other types of SVT.

Swtooth

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