Attn Clinic/Doctors office nurses! - page 2

I've seen this topic before but it's come up again at my clinic/urgent care, sorry in advance if you've heard this a million times. Do you call medical assistants nurses at your clinic? Would you... Read More

  1. by   Elleveein
    Yes! I know all that to be true and I've said it PLENTY of times. As for management...... they're MAs that worked their way up to management. Like i said before I'm the only nurse there and trust me my doc's don't give a poo what i think or say and yes I reported it to the nursing board over a yr ago, nothing was done.
  2. by   Elleveein
    It's gonna take something drastic to happen for my clinic to change.......I'll be gone before that happens.
  3. by   CaliBoy760
    If that's the case then I would document, document, document. The best way that I have found is to send an email to yourself with all the pertinent info. That way it is dated and if you ever had to show it, for whatever reason, you could prove that you were concerned about it. Another point to consider, and this varies from state to state. In California, CNA's and MA's working beneath me are doing so under MY LICENSE! No way in hell am I going to let someone jeopardize my license because they want to feel more important. I am a 45 year old male. When I worked in Primary Care, many of the patients addressed my as "Doctor". I would IMMEDIATELY correct them. To do anything less would be dishonest and I could go to jail for impersonating a doctor. While you're situation is a little less dyer, it still warrants correction. If only to protect YOUR license.
  4. by   Elleveein
    The MAs at my office work under the doctors license NOT mine. I spoke with the nursing board about that to make sure, I did my part i reported it, its documented.
  5. by   xoemmylouox
    Patients and family members think pretty much everyone is a nurse or a doctor. I don't get too upset about it.
  6. by   kcmylorn
    This is the one thing that gets my BP soaring. I'm sorry to have to say this but I think the problem started when we nurses stopped wearing all white uniforms, our nursing pins and our caps. We have left the door wide open for every charlatan, un- nursing licensed healthcare worker to be called 'nurse'. Healthcare workers who hold certificates(MA's, MST's. Patient care technicians, and nursing assistants, and busy body receptionists who step out of there job description) hold only that- a certificate. They need to get it through their heads a 'certificate' and a 'nursing license' are 2 very different things. They are light years apart. If the Fed ex guy decides to wear scrubs to their job one day, I guess they too will be called 'nurse'.

    First comes the dress like a nurse, then they start performing tasks that it requires, by law, an actual nursing license to do. I have, on occassion, corrected the patients infront of the person-(" so and so, is the MA, nurse's aid or the receptionist. I am the nurse) when I catch the patients calling these unlicensed personel"nurse" . I first wait to see if the worker is going to correct the patient first or let the charade continue. I could care less if these unlicensed assistive personnel think it is 'attitude'. It will be one hellva an 'attitude' if the practice gets sued because of there ego building. I can see it now, "Oh,' the nurse' said I could drive after my sedation". or "the nurse" never told me I could bleed" These MA and CNA's are taught how to take Blood Pressures. They are not taught how to interpret Blood Pressures. They are NOT taught "critical thinking"!!!So why they would even guess at this is beyond me.

    As for the stupid comment on the part of the unlicensed personnel about the nurse case manager and nurse manager not being nurses- I can't even go there with out the juglars popping.
  7. by   kcmylorn
    Bravo for you in notifying the Board of Nursing. You did the right thing. It's only going to take one patient injury and major law suite due to these reckless, irresponsible unlicensed assistive personnel misrepresenting themselves as a licensed nurse.

    Respectfully speaking, Their misrepresentation of themselves is "FRAUD'- a felony offense. They could get jail time if convicted and if the injury is sever enough, FRAUD would be the lesser of the criminal offenses they could be charged with. A FRAUD conviction is not expungedable from their record and they will not get any other employment, anywhere,anytime. A criminal conviction of FRAUD is classified as "a crime of dishonesty" and that will exclude them from any type of employment. They will be supporting themself through self employment only- example: babysitting, mowing lawns or working for a dear friend or relative. Outside employment will be closed to them. It's not so much as working under someone's license. It's about the criminally misrepresenting themselves. It is a bonafided crime for them to misrepresent themselves. An offense they can be prosecuted for. If the BON has told you they are working under the doctors license then that doctor is pretty foolish for giving them that much unsupervised leeway. God only know what they are "doing in actions" under the docs license. As for the office manager being an MA- Oh boy!!

    These regulatory bodies will take a second look at their lax attitude if there is 1 major insident or injury because then the State is held liable- because they were notified( by the licensed nurse) and the state did not act to prevent injury/protect the public. That is why your documentation is important. It saves your butt from being the scapegoat. I know for a fact that such an insident will be investigated by the State's Office of the Attorney General: as I did an internship project with the Dept of Health during such an insident. An MA was doing cosmetic injections on the side which resulted in the injury of 7 patients. These insidents were not reported by the patients themselves but were reported by the hospital's Emergency Room nursing staff( obligation to report) where these patients sought care for their injuries. Some of these patients were injured badly enough they had to be admitted. The Office of Attorney General was notified to handle the case against the MA because an MA does not hold a "License" and therefore does not fall under the jurisdiction of the Nursing Board. Maybe this is where these MA's CNA and receptionists and finally wake up and find out they need a license to practice nursing- when the BON is not the one who brings the criminal charges against them. It's the attorney general's office bringing the charges against them.

    Hope this clarifies some- document, document, document!!!
    Last edit by kcmylorn on Jun 17, '12
  8. by   kcmylorn
    Try reporting them to the Dept of Health and the your state's Attorney General's office. IMHO- if these MA's are of a different culture, They may have medicine men, soothsayers or community elder's or members who practice some primitive form of medicine and midwifery but they are not educated in the practice of nursing or medicine. That maybe well and good for thier "country of Origin" but this is the United States and our laws state you must have a license to practice nursing or medicine and to get that license you have to complete a formal education program designated for that purpose.

    In the hospitals I have come across more times than I can count- nursing assistants doing patient education. What formal education do they have to do such an action. How many nutrition courses have they completed, How many clinical science, pathophysiology,pharmacology courses have they completed. I want these people to show me their transcripts
    In the clinic setting I have found MA's and receptionists doing triage (Triage ia only legally allowed to be done by an RN because it requires critical thinking and decision making). and when I inform them not to do this, they start doing the triage calls in their native language not realizing I recognize the medical terms in their language. I too have brought this to managment's attention. I have begun documenting these insidents - name, date, time of call, patient's name and the words I heard used and I sit there and listen to the conversation and when the unlicened person hangs up I ask what her triage decsion was and write it down. I have also gone to the doctor and made the doctor aware. When something bad happens to one of these patients, and It will, I will be all prepared to fully cooperate with the investigaing party or parties.I guess you can tell how burned up about this subject I am!!
  9. by   Elleveein
    I used to get get burned up too. In my case the docs and other staff are ignorant, they just don't know. They think it's ok to call all of us nurse as long as they don't say RN or LVN. I work for 7 MD's all born and raised here, they practice regular western medicine soooo yeah. Maybe I will inbox the name of my clinic, you seem like a real spit fire!
  10. by   elprup
    Eleveein - you must be working at the place I quit!!!! I would even take down notes on bulliten boards that listed MA's as nurses. Oh and our place has LVN's as Triage Nurses. Of course I pointed that out too. BTW, the LVN was awesome regarding "most" issues...but still, it is NOT legal! I was the only RN as well. Doctors were so overworked and underpaid they did not really care from what I noticed...until an FNP stated she was a Dr..well that ruffled everybodies feathers. Very annoying. I do agree, until we stand up for our profession and rights, and educate public, nothing will change. There are over 600,000 members on allnurses, I would think we could change the world!!!
  11. by   Elleveein
    I wish there was an FNP at our clinic but no I'm the only nurse. I do plan on leaving soon, I just started doing hospice work. As soon as i'm comfortable with it i'm out, I make medical assistant money so i really can't afford to stay there anyway. As a hospice nurse i make 25 hourly, at the clinic I make 16.30 hourly. I very disappointed in the nursing board I reported this and they did nothing
  12. by   kcmylorn
    Medical assistance , patient care technicians, nurses aids, medication technicians do not fall under the jurisdiction of the Board of Nursing because they do not have a license. These groups are classified as " Unlicensed Assistive Personnel". They only hold a certificate. Therefore; the Boards of Nursing can not discipline them. They have no authority over them. Just like the Board of Nursing has no authority over a Doctor, Mortician, Hairdresser, Engineer, Lawyer, Dentist. All hold licenses and answer to their own regulatory body.

    The prosecution and disciplining of an "Unlicensed Assistive Personnal"- a nurses aid, medical assistant, ect, comes under the state's Office of the Attorney General. Google your state's office of the attorney general.

    For a medical Assistant, nursing assistant, hurst driver etc to call theselves "nurse" is a criminal offense, a felony- fraud.. It's the equivalant of stealing some one's credit cards- it's identy theft. It's fraud. A person who calls themselves a "Doctor" who is not a medical Board licensed Physican is committing fraud. They are frauding the public. A person who calls themselves a "Nurse" who is not a nursing Board licensed nurse is committing fraud. They are frauding the public. They are misleading the public to thinking they are something they are not. A lawyer has to pass the Bar exam to become "licensed" to practice law. A law clerk or a paralegal can not call themselves a "Lawyer" They cannot give legal advice. They do not posses the education to qualify to take the Bar exam so they therefore cannot give legal advise, try cases, represent clients.

    So, why do we nurses tolerate these assistants and aids calling themselves "Nurses"? They do not posses the education to qualify to take the Nursing Boards or NCLEX and therefore practice nursing- make nursing decisions, perform critical thinking, defy the nurses task delegation, engage in patient teaching, interpret lab results( yes, there are quite a few who give patients their lab results both over the phone and hand them paper copies without the providers review. This I have personally witnessed and reported. I could tell some stories on these events alone), teach patients and families about their medications and give general nursing advice. They are soooo out of control. If this were a law clerk, does anyone think this would be tolerated?? Heck- NO.

    The majority of the fault lies with nursing adminstration. There is no back up to the "licensed " nurse. When the nurse try's to correct the aidor the medical assistnat, the aid or the medicalassitant say- "It's not what the nurse said, it's how the nurse said it, My feeling we hurt, they embarassed me", My personal favorite" the nurse is being abusive" It is viewed as the "poor aid, medical assistant is being picked on" by the "nasty nurse". Do they think their feelings are going to any less spared when the lawyers and prosecutors drag them into to court on a witness stand and ask them why they let said patient think they were a "nurse".They're feelings weren't too hurt to do that! Call the Attorney General's Office and let them "pick on" the poor aid, medical assistant and the nursing administration can tell it to the Attorney General, the Federal judge, the prosecutor to stop "picking on the aid and the medical assistants
  13. by   Elleveein
    Allllrighty then. I'll contact the attorney general, I doubt anything will happen.