Almost done with RN-to-BSN. Very disappointed.

[Kosmonavt]

I'm in a third and final semester of RN-to-BSN program. Today I had another class of "Community health nursing". It was so boring that most students were falling asleep. I don't understand what is a purpose of BSN degree if the only difference from ADN is that you have to take a whole bunch of useless classes that have nothing to do with the art of medicine. So far I took six so-called nursing classes and did not have to open a book to get through. All the used book at the campus bookstore look like new which means other students did not touch them either.

I will list classes that are required for BSN degree at my university:

First semester:

1. Professional nursing.

2. Health assessment.

3. Transcultural nursing.

Second semester:

1. Issues facing profession.

2. Nursing research.

3. Leadership and management.

Third semester (currently taking)

1. RN-BSN seminar.

2. Community health nursing.

3. Community health (practicum).

I can't say much about community health practicum so far, but I'm telling you the other classes (except for the health assessment and research classes) is a waste of time and money. The majority of my classmates have the same opinion.

Yes, I will have BSN after my name, and I will be able to get international experience in other Westen countries (which I'm looking for), but it does not give me any advantage teaching me new skills or giving the knowledge that is valuable in clinical settings.

I would like to hear opinions of others currently enrolled in RN-to-BSN program or who have already graduated.

[jjjoy, LPN]

All these things are swimming around in my mind, all seeming to be interrelated...nursing education in general, bsn vs. adn, nursing model vs medical model, the dnp, nursing theory...

I'm not adding to the discussion here, just letting you know, psychonaut, that I find these things swimming around in my mind often as well. I don't even work as a nurse now but nursing as profession and nursing education has so much potential and room for improvement it seems, that it just keeps churning in the back of my mind. Sometimes, I toy with the idea of graduate school but don't have a clear focus and the profs at the local uni's don't seem to be focusing on the areas that do interest me.

Anyway, sign me up for that discussion on nursing theory with you and llg!!

[psychonaut]

I'm not adding to the discussion here, just letting you know, psychonaut, that I find these things swimming around in my mind often as well. I don't even work as a nurse now but nursing as profession and nursing education has so much potential and room for improvement it seems, that it just keeps churning in the back of my mind. Sometimes, I toy with the idea of graduate school but don't have a clear focus and the profs at the local uni's don't seem to be focusing on the areas that do interest me.

Anyway, sign me up for that discussion on nursing theory with you and llg!!

I'm currently reading a lot of Nightingale, and I find it amusing that my above post regarding my redesigned bsn program could have just been a cut-and-paste from her "Training of nurses" (1894).

I find myself in greater philosophical agreement with Nightingale than with the majority of the modern nursing theorists.

[swedishfish18]

Wow. That kinda bothers me, here I am about to enroll in an online RN to BSN program. It should cost about $26,000.00 to finish it. NO Clinicals.

Is it worth it?Did anyone here explore RN to NP?

[Saifudin]

There was an interesting study done by Prof. Nancy Aiken (U. of Penn) on the differences b/tween ADN and BSN prepared nurses. Her study found major differences in mortality rates in surgical units in hospitals with lower BSN prepared nurses. She attributed the differences to greater critical thinking skills in BSN prepared nurses. Do I agree? I don't know. After 30 plus years and as a DON, I feel that my critical thinking and problem solving skills are pretty well honed. Perfect? By no means, but I feel advanced. By the way, I'm a diploma nurse, NP and BS in Health Care Mgmt and currently mid-way through an MS in health care adm.

As DON in large mental health facility I have seen over the years that education on nursing, theories and models would have been beneficial, however, I have learned a great deal to compensate through my own study which has been essential in my position.

I work in the middle east and am out of touch with mainstream health care in the States, however, I'm it seems that while a BSN preparation in a high quality program, for me is the ideal, I believe the push to BSN has some political overtones. Colleges and Universities require income to survive and they must lobby to gain and maintain their share of the student pie. Sharing it with the many community colleges offering nursing degrees is a competition they must contend with, however, many programs will pick up students later on when they return for the BSN.

With that said, you will have to just go through this time and when you have the BSN I think you will forget these 'sleepy' days and be happy you have the degee.

Think positive and get as much out of the studies as you can. Perhaps you will also have a different sense of appreciation for this course some years down the road.

Saifudin

[jjjoy, LPN]

Nursing programs are expensive to run so they are anything but a money-maker for undergrad programs at state universities.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

There was an interesting study done by Prof. Nancy Aiken (U. of Penn) on the differences b/tween ADN and BSN prepared nurses. Her study found major differences in mortality rates in surgical units in hospitals with lower BSN prepared nurses. She attributed the differences to greater critical thinking skills in BSN prepared nurses. Do I agree? I don't know. After 30 plus years and as a DON, I feel that my critical thinking and problem solving skills are pretty well honed. Perfect? By no means, but I feel advanced. By the way, I'm a diploma nurse, NP and BS in Health Care Mgmt and currently mid-way through an MS in health care adm.

Saifudin

You have to use a critical eye when reading such research: https://allnurses.com/forums/1379680-post3.html

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

You have to use a critical eye when reading such research: https://allnurses.com/forums/1379680-post3.html

So the higher the education the lower the nurse/patient ratio.

Yeah, that could skew the study.

[Saifudin]

You have to use a critical eye when reading such research: https://allnurses.com/forums/1379680-post3.html

Nice post you referred to. For sure, the Aiken study was contentious particularly from the leaders of ADN programs.

Critical thinking skills can definitely be taught but fine tuning, to the point of these skills becoming automatic and highly defined comes over years.

I used this study in a talk on patient safety a few years back for Nurses Day in Saudi Arabia. Here, roughly 95% of nurses are classed as 'technical' by the Saudi Council for Health Specialties, the body that registers and in some degree, regulates the health profession. Technical according to the ICN and WHO means equivalent to the LPN level, but in many instances and I would say in most cases (with my staff of 263 nurses) it is below the standard of an LPN (US trained). The Aiken study was used to make a stark contrast between an acceptable level of practice and what is the reality in Saudi.

Keep in mind that in Saudi there are many types of independent health care systems such as the military, which recruits a higher level of western trained nurses. The Ministry of Health, (my employer) carrys 60% of the health care burden therefore, has the highest recruitment ratios with most nurses classes as 'technical'. Critical thinking skills is often absent in many of these nurses trained only to provide some level of care.

Definitely, studies such as these need to be scrutinized and can not be taken alone to develop or make public policy on nursing education but it was effective in my hospital administration finally understanding why a higher level of nursing staff is needed.

[Farmer Jane]

Ah yes, the Aiken study. Nothing like showing the world that nurses really can't do research.

[queenjean]

Because THIS didn't have anything to do with the results of the Aikens study:

"BSN/ MSN nurses tended to work in the high tech/ teaching hospitals and to have lower ratios of nurse to patient 4:1 as compared with the ADN at 8:1."

Yeah, give me twice the number of pts, put me in a smaller hospital with fewer resources and then act surprised when my pts don't do as well? No, that didn't have *anything* to do with the outcomes.

[queenjean]

If I was an ADN student in your area I would feel ripped off and taken advantage of.

I went to an LPN, then ADN program. Now I'm doing my BSN online. I don't feel ripped off, and I'll tell you why. I paid $50 a credit hour for my LPN, $110 per credit hour for my RN, and now I'm paying about $175 per credit hour for my BSN (online program). The straight through, classroom based BSN programs in my area cost anywhere from $185-350 per credit hour. I managed to get out of my ADN program paying cash for everything; couldn't have done that in any of the area BSN programs.

I have a previous degree, so I didn't qualify for any grants. I had two little kids. Sure, I went two years for an ADN degree, when I could have gone for my BSN in the same amount of time, but the huge difference was the price and the timing of classes. I would have had to put my young kids in daycare all day every day. The classes were scattered throughout the day, Monday through Friday. The community college had classes 8 hours a day, three days a week--it was geared toward working, nontraditional students. Cut my daycare costs by 1/3, cut my commuting costs, and increased my time spent with my family.

I could not have worked full time during the BSN program, again because of the scheduling of the classes. I carry our health insurance, though, so I *had* to work full time. The community college allowed me to do this. My RN program was mostly on line (not the clinicals, obviously).

In short, yes ultimately I may be spending more money and time on classes to get my BSN since I went the ADN route. But if I would have only had the BSN option, I would not have gone to nursing school at all. I wasn't willing to put my kids in daycare full time, quit my job, have our family go uninsured or woefully underinsured, and put us thousands upon thousands of dollars in debt for that quicker BSN program.

My instruction for my LPN-RN program was vastly superior to the instruction I am receiving now in my RN-BSN classes. Most of my instructors in the ADN program were part-timers. They were nurse practitioners, flight nurses, ICU and ER nurses that were also part time instructors. My BSN instructors haven't worked the floor in years. I'm not exaggerating when I say that several of them are too large to work the floor--one walks with a walker. They may have been great nurses in their time, but now they are purely educators, working in the realm of the theoretical. I prefer instructors who can walk the walk and talk the talk.

:shrug They still have a lot to teach me, and I *am * learning. I just wanted to point out mainly that I do not regret my ADN path. It was ADN or nothing at that point in my life. I don't feel cheated at all.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I went to an LPN, then ADN program. Now I'm doing my BSN online. I don't feel ripped off.........

I don't regret my ADN path either. It was $27 per credit hour. It took me 2 more years to finish to get my BSN, which is what associate degree programs should be like - the first two years towards a bachelor's degree.

I didn't mean "ripped off" in a financial sense.

If I went to school and was awarded an ADN degree that was just a few courses shy of a BSN and someone went to another school and took three courses and got a BSN the advantages the BSN might give them, then I would feel a bit ripped off by the ADN program making me take so many courses and giving me "only" an ADN. Almost every other associate degrees are "two year" programs, whereas nursing ADNs are practically BSNs, without the BSN.