Anybody know of any groups working to advocate for stricter education and licensing requirements?
Some elements that might be advocated for would include:
- Increased federal dollars to fund residencies or other incentives for hospitals/clinics to develop such programs.
- 5 years of full time RN work experience in a hospital related to the tract one is pursuing and/or standardized testing to measure baseline competency.
- Mandatory 1 year residency or at least mandatory MD supervision before independent practice is considered w/ a certification required once independent practice is requested.
- Renewal of licenses every 4 years.
I would like to here opinions about items mentioned above, but more importantly, I would like to know of groups that are doing serious work to advocate for these changes.
And no, I'm not an AMA 'plant'. I'm an FNP dedicated to solidifying our place in the medical field.
Specializes in Former NP now Internal medicine PGY-3.
Numenor said:
As long as the programs are majority online with 0 admission standards and no preceptor oversight, the programs are going to be substandard. I am actually a fan of online learning but the NP model/construct is horrible.
I think there was a govt funded "NP residency" program a year or so ago similar to GME funding. Not sure where that went.
RN experience IMO doesn't matter, life experience and general intelligence/critical thinking do.
The specialties are w/e, who can be a specialist with 500 hours?
The only way to fix this is to tighten admission standards so schools can't admit everyone and expect the student to facilitate their own education. Also we NEED more residencies/fellowship and incentives for hospitals and clinics to form them.
I'd def pay a residency or fellowship trained app more if I was hiring. Probably substantially.
RN experience IMO doesn't matter, life experience and general intelligence/critical thinking do.
Numenor says this on every thread that deals with NPs. Life experience etc. etcetera is what he/she thinks is more beneficial to the education/knowledge base/practice capabilities than being an RN.
Maybe his/her ideal program label would be a "Life Experienced, General Intelligence, Critical Thinking Practitioner" LEGICTP on your name tag. BUT there is never any practical way proposed to measure these criteria on Numenor's posts.
subee said:
I agree with much of your post with the exception of dismissing RN experience.
>5 years full time, inpatient experience + minimum 1 year residency (possibly other requirements).
Provide documentation of this experience + APRN license you get your name placed on a publicly accessible list for employers and patients to view. That's my solution.
>5 years full time, inpatient experience + minimum 1 year residency (possibly other requirements).
Provide documentation of this experience + APRN license you get your name placed on a publicly accessible list for employers and patients to view. That's my solution.
I would be OK with deducting two years of that required experience in exchange for the year residency requirement. But some of that two years would have to be in the specialty for which the nurse is applying. I don't know how people can make a decision with career-long consequences in a field they haven't even tried. I would also love to see a federal credentialing center that would provide the info to the hospital seeking it. It's ridiculous how long it takes to be credentialed - especially when you have a job that requires you to float to multiple locations. I'd also like to be 5'7 and a size 10:) as long as I am wishing for the impossible.
Numenor says this on every thread that deals with NPs. Life experience etc. etcetera is what he/she thinks is more beneficial to the education/knowledge base/practice capabilities than being an RN.
Maybe his/her ideal program label would be a "Life Experienced, General Intelligence, Critical Thinking Practitioner" LEGICTP on your name tag. BUT there is never any practical way proposed to measure these criteria on Numenor's posts.
I agree. It is a NURSE practitioner.
It's pretty self-explanatory. People who come from analytical careers (engineers, other science careers) or highly socially adept or organized ones (military, business/management/supply chain). Literally anything besides the tried and failed "nursing experience" model.
10 years of experience and dealing with 100s of NPs at this point tells me it doesn't matter. Great, you half-a** an assessment on a med surg floor for 2 years while autopilot scanning meds or worked in a nursing clinic taking vitals and "assisting". Yeah, that's totally going to make you a good provider.
I was an ICU nurse for nearly my entire career (>5 years) and it didn't make a difference. At best I only had a superficial understanding of anything.
Maybe it's been decades since you worked the floors. It wasn't that long for me. I also work daily rounding with nurses. I see what they do and know. Rarely am I impressed to think, WOW this person would make a great provider.
Sorry, I can see past the gatekeeping BS of nursing "experience".
Specializes in Former NP now Internal medicine PGY-3.
Numenor said:
It's pretty self-explanatory. People who come from analytical careers (engineers, other science careers) or highly socially adept or organized ones (military, business/management/supply chain). Literally anything besides the tried and failed "nursing experience" model.
10 years of experience and dealing with 100s of NPs at this point tells me it doesn't matter. Great, you half-a** an assessment on a med surg floor for 2 years while autopilot scanning meds or worked in a nursing clinic taking vitals and "assisting". Yeah, that's totally going to make you a good provider.
I was an ICU nurse for nearly my entire career (>5 years) and it didn't make a difference. At best I only had a superficial understanding of anything.
Maybe it's been decades since you worked the floors. It wasn't that long for me. I also work daily rounding with nurses. I see what they do and know. Rarely am I impressed to think, WOW this person would make a great provider.
Sorry, I can see past the gatekeeping BS of nursing "experience".
Might get some flak for not limping in nursing as an analytical career on a nursing forum haha. But likely the course work for all those things mentioned is probably harder than BSN nursing. So I can't say I disagree. Time to put the armor on.
Might get some flak for not limping in nursing as an analytical career on a nursing forum haha. But likely the course work for all those things mentioned is probably harder than BSN nursing. So I can't say I disagree. Time to put the armor on.
I am okay with that, it is clear nursing experience isn't doing what it supposedly should. To me and anyone not emotionally attached to the nursing title, it is obvious.
Were you interested in helping people, in nursing skills, job security or. not able to get into a medical school?,
Ah yes, the personal snipes now. Irrelevant but okay. I have had multiple STEM/humanities careers/degrees and am currently transitioning out of my current role to do something else.
Nursing wasn't what I thought it was, but its PR department is on point. I will give them that.
It's pretty self-explanatory. People who come from analytical careers (engineers, other science careers) or highly socially adept or organized ones (military, business/management/supply chain). Literally anything besides the tried and failed "nursing experience" model.
10 years of experience and dealing with 100s of NPs at this point tells me it doesn't matter. Great, you half-a** an assessment on a med surg floor for 2 years while autopilot scanning meds or worked in a nursing clinic taking vitals and "assisting". Yeah, that's totally going to make you a good provider.
I was an ICU nurse for nearly my entire career (>5 years) and it didn't make a difference. At best I only had a superficial understanding of anything.
Maybe it's been decades since you worked the floors. It wasn't that long for me. I also work daily rounding with nurses. I see what they do and know. Rarely am I impressed to think, WOW this person would make a great provider.
Sorry, I can see past the gatekeeping BS of nursing "experience".
I can't even imagine working in an ICU for 5'ish years and having only a superficial understanding of anything. Nope, can't imagine five years and coming out with the same shallow understanding any beginner would have. How very uncurious.
Tegridy
583 Posts
I'd def pay a residency or fellowship trained app more if I was hiring. Probably substantially.