Advice from someone who might have "been there"...

[tunafish1]

Hello All..

I have an interesting tale that I would appreciate some advice, feedback or experience regarding.

I am a current RN student well into school. I am a good student, I do not miss class, have a good gpa..I am the one who follows the rules.

I was informed late last semester that I did not pass a nursing class. MANY issues arose in finding out why, but I filed a grievance with the college and it took all summer to get through the proper channels. I presented myself well, was polite and dignified and very well prepared.

I was turned down.

NOW..the issue at hand. During this process, I found out through self-admittance of the professor involved in all of this that a great deal of the class sat at "my" level..and her exact words were "I had to lower the passing grade percentages to fill the nursing xxxxx class for next semester as we were worried we would not have enough students." Now passing was a 78%. A "D" or non-passing grade is a 70-77.5%. Admittedly, this professor passed some D's onto a C to fill the next semester of classes. I heard this, the college president heard this, everyone heard it..including my attorney who was only there as a witness.

I kept quiet as this was BIG information. Earlier in the grievance proceeding, I was called a poor student for a previous nursing class grade of a "C". I argued that this "C" was a 84.33%.

I was met with..doesn't matter, a "C" is a "C".

SO..isn't a "D" a "D"?

Can this professor pass students with the SAME letter grade on and not others? There is no description in the syllabus for a D-, D, or a D+.. If a C is a C, then isn't a D a D?

As I kept quiet and discreet about this information that I should not have been privvy too, it worked against me. I thought being discreet would reward me. It did not.

More students were moved on who earned a "D", then were held back and told to repeat.

Also, the students held back..are all federally funded pell grant students. Now the gov't. is paying twice for a student who got the same grade as another who isn't required to retake the class.

Our gov't is broke enough ..

You all know that a professor having this high of a failure rate needs to be evaluated, but it seems the college stands behind her. The professor now explains that this was fair because each class may have had a different test with one being harder than the other? You know we all had basically the same tests.

Anyone with any knowledge or advice? I am posting this in the general nurses forum to gather experience from those who have already graduated or may be educators themselves..

Thank you.

[tunafish1]

Understood.. And That is the way it is in our syllabus as well. Unfortunately one of the students not passing is now booted. Her previous failure is not academic but a competency in an initial course. Shamefully, others with the same grade passed on. This is why I am researching.. It affects far more than me. Thank you for your post.

[tunafish1]

Beenthere and Ona... I appreciate your insight greatly.

[leslie :-D]

i do understand the sense of injustice you feel...i'm like that, too.

but my thought is, if your lawyer is at a loss, i'm not understanding why you'd think that anyone else could.

of course, you can drop out and start somewhere else, while continuing with litigation.

but as it stands now, rather than going forward, it sounds like you're spinning your wheels.

i wish you well.

leslie

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

I'm sorry you have experenced this......I'm like that too when something isn't fair or honest. But for your own piece of mind...let it go and move forward. Finish school and go back to head the department and change it all!!!

God luck!

[ktliz]

It seems that what your professor did is somewhat like "curving" the class grades, which is legit. However, if you had a syllabus that states "Passing = x%," or if the nursing department has such a policy in place, then yes, you are getting the short end of the stick. Unfortunately, since your appeal was denied, there's not much to be done. I know it's not what you want to hear, but be thankful that all you need to do is repeat the course, instead of finding a new program.

Good luck, I know you can get through this!

[ixchel]

I took statistics in the spring and held an A the entire semester until the final. I don't know what happened, but I clammed up completely and bombed it. My professor knew I understood the subject matter as a whole, saw my grade was within 1% of being an A, so she gave me the A. I was so thankful!

I wonder if perhaps the teachers and administration involved saw this in a similar manner: those who passed in spite of their Ds were passed not just because of the numbers, but also because the professor believed that their grade was not an accurate measure of how well they comprehended the subject matter.

It may not feel fair to those left behind, but honestly, it sounds to me like they had a choice to pick those in the class who were BEST qualified to move on and you didn't make the cut. I'm not saying that to be mean, I promise, and I know my feelings would definitely be hurt as well. It's hard enough going through these classes once.

I feel like taking this class a second time can only benefit you, even though being held back is bound to be frustrating. Your second time around, you can learn the material better and who knows-- replace the D with an A and you just got a great opportunity to boost your GPA with a little bit less work than usual.

(BTW, the information that you felt you weren't supposed to know was likely already known if the professor was willing to share it with a room full of people. Those students who didn't have passing grades but were given them were likely in on it when grades were posted.)

[tunafish1]

All very good points! Thank you.. This is why I put this out there :)

I have to add, though... That I only found out that students passed in the D range two months and six meetings informs grievance when the college president started adding up numbers in front of others at a meeting for this matter and said... Well not everyone on this list adds up to the 78% you said they needed to pass, though it shows them passing.

Every other meeting to this point the argument was that I didn't make 78%... it was actually priceless to see the professor's face when he pointed that out.... So no, no one was supposed to know.

Thank you all again :)

[pixie120]

Hello All..

I have an interesting tale that I would appreciate some advice, feedback or experience regarding.

I am a current RN student well into school. I am a good student, I do not miss class, have a good gpa..I am the one who follows the rules.

I was informed late last semester that I did not pass a nursing class. MANY issues arose in finding out why, but I filed a grievance with the college and it took all summer to get through the proper channels. I presented myself well, was polite and dignified and very well prepared.

I was turned down.

NOW..the issue at hand. During this process, I found out through self-admittance of the professor involved in all of this that a great deal of the class sat at "my" level..and her exact words were "I had to lower the passing grade percentages to fill the nursing xxxxx class for next semester as we were worried we would not have enough students." Now passing was a 78%. A "D" or non-passing grade is a 70-77.5%. Admittedly, this professor passed some D's onto a C to fill the next semester of classes. I heard this, the college president heard this, everyone heard it..including my attorney who was only there as a witness.

I kept quiet as this was BIG information. Earlier in the grievance proceeding, I was called a poor student for a previous nursing class grade of a "C". I argued that this "C" was a 84.33%.

I was met with..doesn't matter, a "C" is a "C".

SO..isn't a "D" a "D"?

Can this professor pass students with the SAME letter grade on and not others? There is no description in the syllabus for a D-, D, or a D+.. If a C is a C, then isn't a D a D?

As I kept quiet and discreet about this information that I should not have been privvy too, it worked against me. I thought being discreet would reward me. It did not.

More students were moved on who earned a "D", then were held back and told to repeat.

Also, the students held back..are all federally funded pell grant students. Now the gov't. is paying twice for a student who got the same grade as another who isn't required to retake the class.

Our gov't is broke enough ..

You all know that a professor having this high of a failure rate needs to be evaluated, but it seems the college stands behind her. The professor now explains that this was fair because each class may have had a different test with one being harder than the other? You know we all had basically the same tests.

Anyone with any knowledge or advice? I am posting this in the general nurses forum to gather experience from those who have already graduated or may be educators themselves..

Thank you.

I have to say that I find it difficult to imagine that anyone could truly graduate being so close to "failing" either as a C or at the D level. I think it would behoove all involved to re-take the classes and try to learn as much as possible, in order to be able to function at a nurse level, once graduated.

[pixie120]

Good eye, Good eye!!!

and if you asked it once, why ask it again...?

Isn't that the classic definition of "something"...asking the same question and expecting a different answer?

Answer shopping?

[pixie120]

I can understand your frustration. The situation is simply unfair.

You followed the proper channels and tried your best.

Now... you need to LET IT GO. You are wasting your precious energy now.

School is tough. The real world of nursing is brutal. I come across unfair, mishandled situations on an almost daily basis.

You may be too sensitive to handle the BS of nursing.

Yes, to be very honest, all of this energy could be and should be better suited to studying. ANd your outcomes would be more positive.

[eslvn]

I dont understand why some of you are upset this person asked twice, get over it its not hurting anyone. Look, I can tell your upset and devastated about your situation. I would be too. In Cali, we have to have above 75% in all classes, no exceptions, no grade curve, so a C- is different than a C+. I think your teacher is going by percentages. While I am a little confused as to what grade cause you to fail, was it a D, and did you have below the required percentage? Anyways, its clear maybe this teacher isnt helping her students learn, because this many students should not be failing. But think about this, if you are not obtaining the required grade that your teacher and school feels is necessary to be a competent nurse then you need to repeat and you will get it next time.

[pixie120]

Understood.. And That is the way it is in our syllabus as well. Unfortunately one of the students not passing is now booted. Her previous failure is not academic but a competency in an initial course. Shamefully, others with the same grade passed on. This is why I am researching.. It affects far more than me. Thank you for your post.

Ok, this is really bugging me, does everyone KNOW everyone elses grades? WHY? Is this he said/she said? or fact? And why focus on OTHERS when one should be focusing on learning the information? I have to say, thosethat failed math in my class, all went back, after a refresher math course, and re-entered the nursing program, repeated the quarter they failed and have all since graduated. Not a bad thing when one steps back and evaluates...do we want nurses who can't add? subtract? calculate?