Adventist and Agnostics?

[PiedPiperRN]

hello,

i am considering a position offered at portland adventist, and i am a little hesitant because i am openly agnostic. part of the application process involves stating your comfort level at some activities such as being asked to pray at the bedside or prayer during meetings. these activities do not make me comfortable, but i would be fine with these as long as my diversity is respected. (patients asking me to pray is another matter, i would do this without hesitation if i felt that it would be therapeutic to their well-being.)

i am not a person who would be offended at being asked to pray, but i would ask that i would be allowed not to participate actively, and that this would not reflect negativly on me by my peers. i also find it uncomfortable when people make assumptions about my religion or beliefs.

part of me feels that i should not apply to a adventist hospital due to my feelings, no more than a vegetarian should work at a butchers. on the other hand, i have worked at hospitals with religious affiliations before (it is hard to find a hospital that does not have one) and have not had a problem.

i would love for some input from someone who has been at adventist before, either as an employee or a patient. they seem to have a very good reputation and appear to be a good hospital, and part of me feels that i would be lucky to work there.

thank you!

pp

[lamazeteacher]

First of all, it seems odd to me that the OP is so open about being agnostic. If he/she chooses not to be involved in organized religion, that's his/her business and his/hers alone. As students, discussions about religion are common, as self examination is very much part of the process of learning.

In as big a city as Portland is, the viewpoint of someone while a student, shouldn't become public knowledge and affect employment unless an employee makes it so. My point is that religious denial isn't a nurses' role and he/she can't be made to participate in religious practices against his/her will.

I am Jewish, and I've been asked to pray with Christian patients on several occasions. When immediacy wasn't necessary, I've told them (gently and kindly) that I would get the chaplain or someone of their own religion, to pray with them in the way they have familiarity. I don't tell them why, what my persuation is, or anything else. It's about them, not me.

I was educated as a nurse 50 years ago, at a Jewish Hospital, and it was there that I learned "Last Rights" for Catholic patients. Our class was told that it was OK for anyone, no matter what their own beliefs are, to give that to anyone who might be Catholic (since it was in Quebec, Canada, that was just about anyone). It's why patients state their religious preference upon admission. If the "front sheet" didn't say Jewish or another religion, we would do "last rights" if it was possible that a dying patient might want that. I would still take note of that if I'm with a dying patient.

In the USA, any facility that receives government monetary assistance, must provide an environment wherein freedom of religion is practised. If you suspected that preference based on religion, age, etc. is given in due time, for raises, promotions, recognition, etc. at the place of your employment you may prosecute such a facility.

The road along any career isn't always smooth, and if you wish to eliminate all "bumps", you may close many doors for your own vocational satisfaction and success, if you never entertain working somewhere that is unfamiliar to you. The trick is to keep your own views, to yourself.

[BrookeeLou_RN]

Think twice! Then go with your gut! Worked in Catholic hospital in town of SDA, most employees in my dept were SDA. Most were totally respectful. I am Methodist so prayer before a office luncheon was great, pray and devotion before every staff meeting was time consuming with no mention of other beliefs. Promotions were definately biased. SDA's stuck together. I will pray with any pt/family of any faith. But at the office it was somewhat uncomfortable depending on who was leading sometimes. So being agnostic might be real uncomfortable. Nursing is enough stress on it's own!

[portcityrn]

I currently work for a SDA hospital. Our mission statement is "To exstead the healing ministry of Jesus Christ". It is expected to be quoted often and it is followed. Just saying.

[Wishinonastar, BSN]

I have to agree with nlmoore though being in health care anywhere you will be faced with a myriad of situations where you feel uncomfortable. I am always respectful and interested in people's religions though I was raised that religion is a private thing, a relationship between a person and God much like a family relationship (he is our father so to speak), so I do not generally share much of my beliefs with anyone, nor do I talk much about my family at work. It is private.

Working in hospice I encountered a lot of dealings with religion and I learned to just respect quietly and listen, deflecting questions in a way that put the focus on the patient.

That being said I will only add that my religious practices were not in sync with a Christian school that I went to for a time. They were very open about religion and talked about it constantly and even though I am a Christian I was very uncomfortable with it in my face all the time. It was a bit overwhelming, and nearly bordered on fanaticism though to them more was better.

Listen to your heart.

[TiddlDwink]

Well, I'm about to retire, but over the past 40 years I've worked in many different settings, and in several different states. I firmly believe that while I'm a nurse, it really isn't anyone's business what my spiritual beliefs are. Furthermore, I would expect people to butt out of that area... just like it's not anyone's business if I'm gay, or hetero... or bi for that matter... or Republican or Democrat, or if I advocate Life or Choice...

However, when I'm a patient, I think it's the nurse's job to care for me holistically, and that includes spiritually and emotionally. If I ask the nurse to pray with me, I do very much think it will not hurt her/him to bow the head, listen respectfully, and say "Amen" at the end. This is especially true if the patient is in a critical situation. The nurse's personal opinion of my God isn't my problem. His making fun, or disavowing my beliefs IS the patient's problem, though.

Same goes for political issues. The patient's bedside isn't the place for political disagreements. Nursey... just smile, keep your mouth shut, and go about whatever business you have here. Isn't the place for anything that makes the patient spiritually uncomfortable or emotionally angry... Nurse can go home and vent on his/her own time about the patient's beliefs or lack thereof.

Just my humble opinion.

[Wishinonastar, BSN]

However, when I'm a patient, I think it's the nurse's job to care for me holistically, and that includes spiritually and emotionally. If I ask the nurse to pray with me, I do very much think it will not hurt her/him to bow the head, listen respectfully, and say "Amen" at the end. This is especially true if the patient is in a critical situation. The nurse's personal opinion of my God isn't my problem. His making fun, or disavowing my beliefs IS the patient's problem, though. quote]

I would never ever ask a nurse to pray with me if I were ill, and though I agree with much of what you say I think that nurses are humans with rights and feelings too, including their own spiritual beliefs which may take precedence in certain situations. I don't think that it is ok for them to impose or discuss them with patients but I don't expect them to drop them at the door either. Nursing is just a job. The way nurses are treated anymore I really don't blame them if they do not give the patient's need for spirituality top billing. People can't have our devoted selflessness if they are going to kick us at every opportunity. Quietly respecful is the best you will get from me, and I surely am not going to spend time praying with you unless you are dying or there is no other alternative. I will get someone who is more comfortable with it to do so. In turn, if I am sick and need some prayer I will ask the nurse to call a priest for me.

[futureRN_Anastasia]

During my high school, I volunteered and then worked in a very religious place doing social services for people. The reason I went there is because I respected what they did, didn't find similar organization without religious affiliation, and the services they provided. I am an agnostic leaning toward atheism. I didn't lie to them about it, I didn't put it in their face either. The thing that matters is that you CARE, and that you want to make the life better for people. It is their right to believe in whatever they want, and it is my right to believe in what I want. I stayed there for over 3 years, and it was an absolutely great experience both in terms of what we were doing and in terms of the community and coworkers.

[Argo]

Just apply. Find out for yourself and get over yourself. Half of your statements are discriminatory in nature....not wanting to work around openly religious people. Input black, white, Asian, gay in for religious and you have "discrimination " I am not a believer in religion. I don't talk about my views not do I bow my head to pray at board meetings at my Baptist hospital. If you want a job then go to work and don't make it an excuse not to work.

[Janey CNM]

I've taught nursing student for 9 years and before that I worked as a CNM in the same SDA hospital n Maryland for 10 yrs. I also have community health students at SDA health & wellness activities. I have not found them to be in the least discriminatory towards staff, physicians, patients or families of any belief system or lack there of. I am Presbyterian, my husband is Jewish. We have clients from all over the world; being near DC we have lots of folks connected to embassies and here for research at NIH. There are typically many Muslims from Asia and Africa, Hindu's from India, Buddhists from Cambodia, and I'm sure many with no stated belief system. The only overt religious theme each day is the 9am prayer over the loud speaker and it is very generic. I really like the SDA holistic philosophy- their perinata/neonatal grief and grieving program is one of the best run that I've encountered. The night L&D charge nurse is orthodox Jewish, as is one of the lactation consultants. Except at the very top levels of management, CEO, chairman of the BOD, being SDA does not seem to be required.

I'd suggest doing a share day and see how you feel there. Good luck!

[LoveMyBugs, BSN, CNA, RN]

I don't know if it is too late to add an opinion, if the OP taken the job or not senice it was last month but,...

I work at PA and I think that it might depend on the department. Yes it is our mission statement, but I work with people who are Muslim and wear the jihab (sp?) and others who are atheist, and agnostic.

Just know that when ever you go to a hospital sponsored training or meeting it will open with prayer. Some units do have a pre shift hundle were they pray or do a quick devotional, that I think depends on the charge nurse, because many times it gets skipped.

You will find that a lot of patients think that because you work at an SDA hospital that you must also be SDA.

It is a great place to work, hey within the last year we got cable and they started allowing caffinee products to be sold in the cafe.

[oregonbeach]

I believe the original writer's letter was respectful and honest. Having only dealt with a "public" facilities, I was unaware that these types of questions and requirements could come up in a job interview.

But is it actually legal for an employer to expect you to participate in religious activities, or to ask a person's beliefs? I'm not talking about a question like, "This is a religious facility and in the course of a day you may have chapel services, prayer groups, bible study, prayer circles going on all around you. Our patients need to know they are safe in their beliefs and respected. Can you work around this?"

I'm wondering if in a private hospital an employer can make you actually participate? Just wondering... having worked in state gov for years this concept blows me away.

[AKav8trix]

I have had a very positive experience working in 2 different SDA facilities. The environment was very caring and holistic care was really emphasized. Not everyone I worked with adhered to SDA beliefs (or more broadly, Christian viewpoints of any denomination), but at least on the units I worked on (primarily Med/Surg and ED) we were all accepted and respected for who we were and not forced into anything, but we did have the opportunity to be openly supportive our patients spiritually, if that is what they desired. The managers I had were great to work with. They really looked out for their employees. Though I'm a diehard meat-eater, the vegetarian cafeteria wasn't too bad.

My experience was several years ago now, but if the opportunity came up to work in an SDA facility again I think I'd seriously consider taking it. :)