I have a friend who lives in PA. She is just finishing her RN (ADN/ASN) and is telling me something about a degree/certificate that would allow her to basically do what a NP does.
Does anybody know what this is? Its my understanding that you have to have a year of work expeirence, and after that you spend a year or so in some sort of training... then pooof. You get to hit the road. I'm thinking that they don't get to write prescriptions, but are about to be able to... or might already be able to. I don't know think they can actually "dx" anything w/o MD supervision. My thinking is that these people are some sort of major physician extenders.
Has my friend heard tale of some Earth shatter joke, or is there actually a way that you can assume a clinical role one year outside of an ADN?
If anyone has any information on this... if they exist, what their titles are (ANP, RNP PretendNP? :) ) and what their scope of practice is... please let me know.
The AMA would never stand for this. Physicians have a hard enough time coping with NP's educated at the Master's level. Since MD's are more organized than nurses [i.e., the majority of them belong to their medical societies, unlike nurses], I suspect their lobbying powers are much stronger.
I doubt that this would ever come to pass.
Besides... EmeraldNYL brings up a good point- every NP program that I know of requires a BSN for entry--- you finish with an MSN & NP certificate.
TaylorMade,R.N. brings up another good point--- the NP market is so saturated... it isn't even funny. All of these NP programs are sucking students in with the promise of employment opportunities.... as a result, more and more bedside nurses will also be NP's.
I know of 3 former students of mine who can't find a job for love or money. They still work as bedside nurses with NP licensure.
Face it... the whole of nursing education is so screwed up, it isn't even funny.
Specializes in Critical Care, Emergency, Education, Informatics.
I have no intention at this time of working as an NP. I went back more for my benifit. I knew that I didn't want to work in a clinic. I"l stay a flight nurse/Critical Care Nurse with just a few more letters after my name. FNP and ACNP.
I know that Stanford University-Foothill College in Palo Alto Californis has what they call Primary Care Associate program that is 15 months long. When you finish, you take the national test as a PA, but with the option to take the NP, too, and become California State NP certified. Basically, you are a PA and an NP, but you can't work in both capacities, only in one. For more infomation, type the words...Primary Care Associates Program on you browser, this should get to the web site that tells all. Hope this helps all that are wondering.
I agree with TIM, the whole education system is unorganized, starting with the different entry points to becoming a RN. I am in a crna program and am still trying to figure out, for example why some programs are 24 months and some as long as 36 months? My program is 32 months and a relatively new program.
I think we have to realize if we want respect and acceptance from the other health care professions, mainly medicine, we have to show high standards. I don't know how it is in other parts of the country, but in my metro area, almost any BSN nurse can get into a NP program even though the market is saturated like every where else. Not to start a NPvs crna debate, but i did notice when looking at both routes that entry into a crna program seemed to much more competive and harder to get into than most NP programs. And, I don't think theses accelerated 3 year BSN to MSN/NP are helping, maybe if we had a severe shortage of NPs, but it just the opposite, we have a glut. But you would never notice it with all these NP programs popping up all the time.
There are a few programs left in California similar to what you all are talking about.
At Harbor UCLA there is a Women's Health Nurse Practictioner "certificate" that you can get in 18 months after you have your R.N. license (6 months experience!) NO prerequisites, NO BSN, NO MSN, you just get your "certificate" and are a WHNP.
Personally, I think its kind of a crock. You probably would only be able to work THERE. Who else would hire a "certificate" NP, with barely any experience?!?! One of my clinical instructors works there and has been trying to recruit RN students into doing this. Sure it sounds great to some, (18 month program, barely any bedside experience...) but I think holding a BSN and MSN means much more.
This article does say that APRN's are defined as having certification as NP's. To obtain board certification (through ANCC or AANP) today you need a Masters. It also qualifies that it is 'pursuant to the rules and regulations of the Board of Nursing", so my take is that the Board oversees the process. What is the BON's of PA position on this??
I suspect that the article originally posted is the usual sort of MD "boy crying wolf" that we hear so often from the physician community: if we let these nurses "encroach" on our turf any more than they already have, the world will come to an end!!! I suspect that the "one year" reference in the article refers to the fact that some MSN programs (not many) are one year programs ... However, you still have to have an MSN to get certified as an NP! And I doubt that many organizations would be willing to employ (or grant privileges to) NPs that have some kind of state ok but don't meet the national standards.
I suspect it's just more MD propaganda, twisting the real meaning of the proposed bill, to scare the general public.
However, you still have to have an MSN to get certified as an NP! And I doubt that many organizations would be willing to employ (or grant privileges to) NPs that have some kind of state ok but don't meet the national standards. QUOTE]
In California, there are still a few CERTIFICATE programs where you do NOT need your MSN to become a certified NP. The only one I personally know of is the Harbor UCLA Women's Health NP program. 18 months, no MSN granted to you, but you are still a certified NP.
I agree that not many would be willing to employ these certificate NP's, without their MSN, but these programs do still exist!
In California, there are still a few CERTIFICATE programs where you do NOT need your MSN to become a certified NP. The only one I personally know of is the Harbor UCLA Women's Health NP program. 18 months, no MSN granted to you, but you are still a certified NP.
I agree that not many would be willing to employ these certificate NP's, without their MSN, but these programs do still exist!
Wow! Ok -- I stand corrected. I had no idea any of those programs were still around ... :uhoh21: But are you eligible to get nationally certified as a NP (you know, the same certification that all the other NPs have ...) without an MSN, or is it just a state of CA thing? I'm a psych CS, and you have to be master's prepared to be eligible for ANCC certification as a CS.
Wow! Ok -- I stand corrected. I had no idea any of those programs were still around ... :uhoh21: But are you eligible to get nationally certified as a NP (you know, the same certification that all the other NPs have ...) without an MSN, or is it just a state of CA thing? I'm a psych CS, and you have to be master's prepared to be eligible for ANCC certification as a CS.
Yeah I don't support nor will attend the NP "certificate" programs. They seem like a "bootleg" NP program. One of my clinic instructors is trying to recruit students to do this, but it is unlikely any of them will be able to venture out PAST that hospital with no MSN. I am not sure if you can get nationally certified. All I know is that this program grants you a true NP license, and it is called an "NP certificate program". It may be a california thing, hopefully it will go away soon!
I just checked the ANCC website, and it specifies that you must have at least an MSN to apply for certification as an NP. So, whatever the CA "certificate" programs are doing, they don't prepare you for ANCC certification.
EastCoast
273 Posts
thanks. good info and pretty clear cut.