Hi all! So I am relatively a new graduate (3 months prior experience) before landing a job at a SNF. I have only been there for a week and although I was told during the interview that I would be working nights, my manager wanted me on the 3-11 shift to learn admissions for a month. I've been working with this RN for about 2 days now and shes really nice. We talk about out personal lives and etc. (For example she had a daughter by someone who is the same ethnic background as me..etc). So I'm explain my experience from my last job at a large teaching hospital and simply mention that I am taking a pay cut but its worth it because I want the experience. She then asks "Oh what are they starting you at." I stupidly tell her my wage (37) and didn't think anything of it. I explain that I usually leave the part on the application where it says to put your desired wage blank but this time around I put a high wage (I was getting paid 5 dollars more at my last job than this one.) She then says oh wow your very lucky and that they didnt start her at that wage and she put 38 on her application but management told her that they couldn't afford to pay her that. Anyways she says I'm lucky and we leave it at that.
My next day, I notice that she is acting a bit different but didn't think anything of it...it is a stressful job however. I do notice however that we dont seem to see eachother at all and that she didn't teach the the computer system (the most important part) but is teaching the other new hire the computer system. When I sit down to observe so I can learn the phone rings. She quickly looks at me and says "Can you answer the phone in a dismissive tone." Again, didn't think anything of it.
When night shift comes on, one of the night nurses says its her last day. No body knows why it seems very VERY abrupt because nobody talked about it before. I see her and this other nurse(my preceptor I suppose) kind of talking privately. This nurse that resigned was a nice girl and I ask "Oh where are you going?" All she says is "Somewhere." which again I thought was a bit odd.
The next day my manager comes up to me and asks me to meet him in his office. By his tone I can tell something was wrong but have no idea. He asks me if I told anyone my wage and I said yes to my preceptor. He then informs me that 1 nurse (the night nurse) quit because of it and that 2 more are considering quitting. I explain that it was naive and I didn't know i confided in her. He tells me she is not your friend, she went and told everyone and that she is already treating you differently. He then says next shift you will be on nights, I need to get you away from them. EVERYTHING now makes sense to me.
Sorry for the long post but what should I do or is there anything that I can do to rectify this situation. Should I confront/talk to this nurse who went and talked about me to everyone? I do not know how much the other nurses are making and had NO IDEA I was even making more than them. IDK if its because I have my BSN or bc they knew I wouldn't have accepted a job or a wage any lower when I was making $5 more at my last job. I feel HORRIBLY about this especially because our SNF is already so short-staffed.
Absolutely!!! Never ever tell this information. Take it to the grave...if you must tell someone, only tell your mother.
The real answer is for nurses to learn how to negotiate, and learn how to walk away. It's a sad situation in that a lot of people don't negotiate.
I agree 100% with your comment about negotiating but being unwilling to assist coworkers so they know where the bar lies is unfortunate and will likely bite you in the butt at some point, imo. As in my earlier post there can be a huge difference in wages. If someone is unaware of the range how are they supposed to negotiate appropriately? Bottom line is without being transparent I don't think we benefit anyone but perhaps our own narcissistic insecurities as well as empowering stingy employers to take advantage of us.
I wish I could like this a hundred times. Back in a previous life I worked in the corporate world. They did this crap ALL OF THE TIME. They would hire someone new to do the exact job (no prior experience) and pay them just as much or even more than someone with seniority. Then they would threaten with termination if you ever mentioned salary or bonus amounts with others. The whole idea of secret salaries is just a way to underpay those with the most experience.
Well that's one theory but to be completely honest something that happens quite frequently is as follows:
Employee A has been with Company A for 10 years. They were likely hired at a market price that was equitable for that time frame and cost of living.
Employee B is a brand new hire and is hired at a rate that exceeds employee A simply because cost of living adjustment has increased the base rate far greater than employee A's annual adjustments over the last 10 years.
Each year, the annual adjustments for raises occur, and employee A and B both receive a 3% raise, baring employee A hasn't capped out for the position. They both received the same % raise, but employee B continues to make more, simply because employee A hasn't negotiated a cost of living adjustment to bring her into line with fair market rate. In the eyes of the manager and employees, so long as nobody knows the differences in pay, they all assume that everybody was bumped up and they go about their business with their 3% increase.
I'm not going to say this is a fair system, it isn't. Companies, whether good intentions or not, have no reason to automatically give these cost of living adjustments. Furthermore, even honest companies may simply be oblivious to the matter. HR knows of my pay, but my immediate manager only tells me what % raise we will be receiving. In larger companies especially, this is extremely simple to overlook. If a hospital employs 200-400 nurses, one nurses compensation to the next is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things.
To the OP, I'm not saying you were wrong in what you did, but you kind of put yourself up a stream without a paddle. It sounds like you have an interesting dynamic at your current workplace, they are having a hard time staffing and now more people are either leaving or threatening to leave. There is absolutely nothing binding you to your current place of employment, but you kind of owe it to the company to stay until they can adequately replace the nursing staff that was lost because of managements oversight in this situation. Those nurses that left possibly were burnt out anyways and just wanted a reason to quit, you'll never know. If you do find yourself unemployed, oh well, live happens and you move on. This ladies and gents is a prime example; however, of why it is important to negotiate your salaries on a regular basis. You only have yourself to blame if you don't feel you're being adequately compensated at a fair and equitable market price for the same or similar services provided.
(And yes, I know i'm referring to us as goods )
Edit: For those of you, like me, that like to see the numbers in action you can use a simple compounding interest calculator to see how this works.
Employee A starting wage 20$. Average 3% raise per year, compounded over 10 years = $26.88.
Employee B started 10 years later, which is quite significant given the sharp increase in cost of living, at 30$ an hour.
I'd still love to see it happen. A good attorney could easily prove that it was due to the salary disclosure, assuming there was no documentation suggesting that there were any performance issues.
Colorado is a right to work State, which means that the employer need not justify their actions. Their verbiage need only be "He/She created an environment of hostility by discussing private matters in the work place so for this reason we had to let him/her go". Sorry to say but its one persons word against another, and employers unfortunately have the favor in these cases simply because of so many frivolous lawsuits by people trying to take advantage of a broken system (and get their "free" sandwich).
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
Colorado is a right to work State, which means that the employer need not justify their actions. Their verbiage need only be "He/She created an environment of hostility by discussing private matters in the work place so for this reason we had to let him/her go". Sorry to say but its one persons word against another, and employers unfortunately have the favor in these cases simply because of so many frivolous lawsuits by people trying to take advantage of a broken system (and get their "free" sandwich).
First, it's called an "at-will employment" state, not a "right to work" state ("right to work" refers to unions). Secondly, even in an "at will" state, you cannot just fire anyone with impunity. There are protected classes and federal laws that employers still have to abide by. If one can prove in a court of law that they were wrongfully terminated, then the court will find for the employee. If it's shown that the "private matters" the employee discussed that created a "hostile work environment" was about what her salary is (and if this goes to court, you can bet it WILL come up), then right there, the facility just lost their case, because it shows they retaliated because of the salary discussion, and said retaliation goes DIRECTLY against federal law.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
California even has its own separate code regarding NLRA law:
California: Labor Code, Section 232 No employer may do any of the following: a. Require, as a condition of employment, that an employee refrain from disclosing the amount of his or her wages. b. Require an employee to sign a waiver or other document that purports to deny the employee the right to disclose the amount of his or her wages. c. Discharge, formally discipline, or otherwise discriminate against an employee who discloses the amount of his or her wages.â€
Nine other states (Colorado included) also have their own language upholding federal law (not that it's necessary, as federal law supercedes state law).
First, it's an "at-will employment" state, not a "right to work" state ("right to work" refers to unions). Secondly, even in an "at will" state, you cannot just fire anyone with impunity. There are protected classes and federal laws that employers still have to abide by. If one can prove in a court of law that they were wrongfully terminated, then the court will find for the employee.
Sorry, my wording wasn't quite correct.. But you've proven my point that wording is everything. In a court of law just because you say you were wrongfully terminated doesn't mean anything. If a civil suit is brought upon the employer (and remember innocent until proven guilty), it is the responsibility of the plaintiff to provide tangible evidence that discrimination occurred. Employers know the laws inside and out and protect themselves in every way possible, some even going so far as to include arbitration clauses in hiring agreements / employee contracts. Unless you can prove it was gross misconduct or overt discrimination, good luck, its your word against theirs. In the hypothetical situation I proposed involving OP's issue, OP would most likely fail to build a case that would win a suit.
I know all of this because I WAS involved in a case similar to this, through a union, and lost a case I was sure and the union attorneys were sure I would win, but because it was my word against the companies, I lost.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
But if they state they fired her because she created a hostile work environment due to her discussion about salary (using your example from above), they just made her case for her.
And I also know this because my son was involved in a case almost EXACTLY like what is described in the OP. Except that he WAS threatened with termination (which they later reversed, after being made aware that they were breaking the law).
Any time an employer makes ANY suggestion that that the employee did wrong by discussing their salary with coworkers, they're automatically making the employee's case.
But if they state they fired her because she created a hostile work environment due to her discussion about salary (using your example from above), they just made her case for her.
And I also know this because my son was involved in a case almost EXACTLY like what is described in the OP. Except that he WAS threatened with termination (which they later reversed, after being made aware that they were breaking the law).
Any time an employer makes ANY suggestion that that the employee did wrong by discussing their salary with coworkers, they're automatically making the employee's case.
Since when do they need to disclose that they are terminating because wages were discussed? That is the point I'm making here. If an employer just terminates you and does not give a specific reason, which isn't required in an at-will state, then you've got nothing to work on.
Being an at-will employee means that your employer can terminate your employment at any time, for any cause - with or without notice.
From an employment law website. If they don't say it was because wages were discussed, then you've got nothing to go off of.
I'm not saying this is right, what I'm saying is this is the reality.
I would move on, not even looking back. If they are this unprofessional, they probably hold grudges as well. And management's response is to put you on night shift without completing orientation??? Unacceptable. Very easy for them to reprimand you over some policy or procedure. Also, SNF documentation is very particular. IMO, this is a minefield.
Thanks for your advice. I agree. My first nighshift was yesterday and it was not a good day to say the least. Of course I still got snarky looks and unacknowledgement from my previous shift giving us report. Of course, I shouldn't be so sensitive, but hey it's just bothersome to me! Not to mention that the night RN is def not the teaching type more like the "give the papers to me" so she can do it herself while I just sit there and stare at the wall type of person. While others may love it, I don't like getting paid if I feel like I'm doing nothing.
I would move on, not even looking back. If they are this unprofessional, they probably hold grudges as well. And management's response is to put you on night shift without completing orientation??? Unacceptable. Very easy for them to reprimand you over some policy or procedure. Also, SNF documentation is very particular. IMO, this is a minefield.
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Jules A, MSN
8,864 Posts
I agree 100% with your comment about negotiating but being unwilling to assist coworkers so they know where the bar lies is unfortunate and will likely bite you in the butt at some point, imo. As in my earlier post there can be a huge difference in wages. If someone is unaware of the range how are they supposed to negotiate appropriately? Bottom line is without being transparent I don't think we benefit anyone but perhaps our own narcissistic insecurities as well as empowering stingy employers to take advantage of us.