I work in a hospital in South Carolina. Any time I question why things are done the way they are done, I get the response "SC is a right to work state". No one seems to be able to explain what this means.
Some of the things I have put together from what people tell me is:
1. You have to thank your employer frequently that they have given you the right to have a job.
2. Talking about $$$ that you make will be frowned upon and could get you fired.
If you talk money amongst your co-workers, people get chapped if your making more thanthey are ,go to management and cause a stink. whats more some people that have worked in one spot for a long time "top-out", even if one recently hired makes more.
I don't know that I would say "right to work" or "at will" means "able to fire with no reason". This country is WAAAAAAYYY too litigious for that.
My understanding (and I live in NC, an "employment at will" state) is there's no standard requirement for notification of termination. Either you or your employer can come in and say "you're fired" or "I quit" without a specified time period attached. Two weeks is just customary and courteous. I could walk in and give my notice tomorrow for Monday and there's not too much they could do about it.
They could blackball me from working here again, of course, but they can't give me a bad reference because of it. (And I still say they'd be hard pressed to blackball anyone anymore; some folks would go out and get a lawyer. They probably stick a note in your file that you just quit on a day's notice and pretty much without warning, but I really wonder how far they'd be able to go nowadays.) Let's face it - companies are so afraid of being sued now they barely GIVE you a reference anymore. It's a wonder ANYONE gets hired anywhere.
If they fire me, they HAVE to tell me why. But they could boot me tomorrow if they wanted; they don't have to say, "you're gone a week from Tuesday".
But firing for no apparent or stated reason....I can't imagine a company getting rid of anyone without first having all their ducks in a line, including some sort of a paper trail on the person. People are way too quick to hire a lawyer these days (sick, but true). Someone would end up getting named in a wrongful termination suit, and companies don't want that to happen.
But firing for no apparent or stated reason....I can't imagine a company getting rid of anyone without first having all their ducks in a line, including some sort of a paper trail on the person. People are way too quick to hire a lawyer these days (sick, but true). Someone would end up getting named in a wrongful termination suit, and companies don't want that to happen.
"right to work" means that indeed, they can fire you at will. But you are right: there are so many State and Federal exceptions (ADA, FMLA, EEOC, whistleblower) etc., that to fire someone without a papertrail just begs to have a lawsuit regarding one of these exemptions and no paperwork to prove that the cause for termination was otherwise.
Besides, unions harp all the time about how EASY it is to get fired in a 'right to work' state. In reality, in nursing, it takes, on average 68k to recruit, train, and bring up to snuff a replacement.
So, any decision to 'fire' a nurse is a 68 thousand dollar decision. Those kinds of decisions aren't made lightly.
"right to work" means that indeed, they can fire you at will. But you are right: there are so many State and Federal exceptions (ADA, FMLA, EEOC, whistleblower) etc., that to fire someone without a papertrail just begs to have a lawsuit regarding one of these exemptions and no paperwork to prove that the cause for termination was otherwise.
Besides, unions harp all the time about how EASY it is to get fired in a 'right to work' state. In reality, in nursing, it takes, on average 68k to recruit, train, and bring up to snuff a replacement.
So, any decision to 'fire' a nurse is a 68 thousand dollar decision. Those kinds of decisions aren't made lightly.
~faith,
Timothy.
Yep; I know what you mean. They CAN fire you - but they'll have it all together when they do to cover their proverbial butts - to evade suit if nothing else.
I have seen this confusion with the terms "right to work" state and "employment at will" state numerous times on this site; They are not the same and they are only tangentally related.
At will employment is a doctrine not a statute or law. The doctrine states that in the absence of a contract either party (employer or employee) can terminate the relationship for any reason or no reason at all. Over the years there has been some erosion of the doctrine. Public policy exceptions and exceptions related to race, gender etc discrimination are examples. Virtually every state is an at will employment state because only one or two have passed laws to the contrary, Montana being an example of that. So in 90% of the states unless you can show that you are covered under the very few exceptions to at will employment, the employer can fire you for no reason. BUT....if you reread my basic working definition of employment at will notice .....the doctrine holds true in the absence of a contract. And where do most contracts in nursing come from? They are negotiated by unions. So for example Florida is a right to work state, however, if a union member in Florida has a contract, they can not be fired at will---instead the contract applies.
Right to work states in contrast have passed right to work laws or statutes. Basically they say that you can't make contracts that say union membership must be a condition of employment. Unions are generally weak in such states for obvious reasons...some employees can potentially reap the benefits/pay negotiated by the union without paying their share of the dues. They also don't participate in work actions (strikes). So right to work makes organizing more difficult---no organizing, no employment contract---and as noted above without such a contract in the vast majoity of cases your employer can fire you for any reason or no reason at all.
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vloho
91 Posts
If you talk money amongst your co-workers, people get chapped if your making more thanthey are ,go to management and cause a stink. whats more some people that have worked in one spot for a long time "top-out", even if one recently hired makes more.