A rant and a question re: CRNA master’s program

Defibn', RN, EMT-P · Feb 3, 2020

9 hours ago, RN_2001 said:
Two years prematurely is hardly last minute, but whatever.

You must not understand what goes into transitioning from a master level to doctoral level as a program.

9 hours ago, RN_2001 said:
It was more than a couple, but OK.

So what?

9 hours ago, RN_2001 said:
Three undergraduate degrees, presidential scholarship recipient, BSN from a Top Ten school with a 4.0 GPA, CCRN, CEN certifications, TNCC, PALS, ACLS, BLS, preceptor, charge nurse and a multiple-time participant in a career advancement ladder and you think this has to do with not wanting to put in effort? Wow, OK.

Again, so what? Many, many CRNAs and SRNAs have high academic/career achievements.

9 hours ago, RN_2001 said:
I no longer have the luxury of time (i.e. youth) to take an entire year or more off of work and lose that income, plus take on the expense of an additional year of tuition. I figured that this would be obvious from my posts and I can't imagine why you seem so defensive/hostile? about this.

I hear you. It sucks that it took you so long to figure out what you want to do. For that, I am sorry. However, the world doesn't revolve around you, or me, or anyone. There are many more people in line to fill the seats at anesthesia schools. I'm not special either. If I didn't get into school there would be another highly qualified candidate more than happy to sacrifice and put in the time and work required to become a CRNA. One of the reasons that a career as an anesthetist is so desirable is that there are high barriers to entry. This protects the job market and the quality of anesthetists.

I am not being hostile toward you. I am calling you out on complaining about the advancement of the profession, though. I am being defensive of the profession and the education that is required. SRNAs and CRNAs are a proud group of people. Like I said, there are many people more than willing to make the sacrifices necessary. You can get mad, but that won't change anything and will only make you bitter. I know many wonderfully bright RNs (much smarter than me) that would make excellent anesthetists but due to their situation in life realize that anesthesia is not a possibility or not worth the sacrifice. This is a theme that holds true for many advanced professions.

Juanito, BSN, MSN · Feb 3, 2020

Hi,

When I ask you this question, I do so with all sincerity: are you posting simply to vent/rant because you want someone to listen or do you really want an answer to the question?

if to vent/rant: ??We are listening and hear your frustration

Otherwise, as stated before, most anesthesia programs are already changing to DNP. If you cannot go to one of the MSN programs available and definitely don’t wanna do a DNP, you should consider another degree. All the best in your decision!

RN_2001 · Feb 3, 2020

39 minutes ago, Juanito said:
Hi,
When I ask you this question, I do so with all sincerity: are you posting simply to vent/rant because you want someone to listen or do you really want an answer to the question?
if to vent/rant: ??We are listening and hear your frustration
Otherwise, as stated before, most anesthesia programs are already changing to DNP. If you cannot go to one of the MSN programs available and definitely don’t wanna do a DNP, you should consider another degree. All the best in your decision!

Yes, of course I really did want an answer to the question and to the posters who did answer it I thanked them for their responses. The point of the rant was to explain the lead-up to the question and well, to vent. Surely there are other people out there who are frustrated for the same reason(s) I am?

As you can see from the thread progression, a poster seemed to feel (for some reason?) that it was somehow personal to them that I had an issue with the master's program phasing out prematurely. They also seemed to ASSume that it was because I was not willing to put in the effort for a doctorate and also that, not because of life circumstances, but because I didn't know what I wanted to do all of these years and suddenly this seemed like a good idea.

Yes, it is obvious to me now that my only choices are to move out of state to attend one of the few master's programs left or give up $300k+ (lost income + tuition) to attend a doctorate program.

Thank you, Juanito for being a voice of common sense and reason. I, myself am a nurturing, encouraging type of person while some people are an "eat their young" type. Sad!

Asherah, BSN, RN · Feb 3, 2020

19 minutes ago, RN_2001 said:
Yes, of course I really did want an answer to the question and to the posters who did answer it I thanked them for their responses. The point of the rant was to explain the lead-up to the question and well, to vent. Surely there are other people out there who are frustrated for the same reason(s) I am?
As you can see from the thread progression, a poster seemed to feel (for some reason?) that it was somehow personal to them that I had an issue with the master's program phasing out prematurely. They also seemed to ASSume that it was because I was not willing to put in the effort for a doctorate and also that, not because of life circumstances, but because I didn't know what I wanted to do all of these years and suddenly this seemed like a good idea.
Yes, it is obvious to me now that my only choices are to move out of state to attend one of the few master's programs left or give up $300k+ (lost income + tuition) to attend a doctorate program.
Thank you, Juanito for being a voice of common sense and reason. I, myself am a nurturing, encouraging type of person while some people are an "eat their young" type. Sad!

Honestly, I read the progression of this discussion as someone trying to provide you with a different perspective and he or she was not hostile, however, your attitude came through in spades. It's okay when someone doesn't agree with you. Nor were they demonstrating the passive aggression that you chose to end your prior post with. They were pointing out the facts which include: yes, the COA has a poor search function, and it's okay to be frustrated by that. I don't agree with you that graduate schools are prematurely transitioning to DNP/DNAP programs. Why would schools offer MS options when they have already put in the effort to fulfill the doctoral program mandate set forth for graduates in 2025? You chose this now and it's just poor timing. You can vent here, but I don't think you'll find much sympathy. Most of us here are determined to do this. If you assess that you are not, there is someone who wants it that will take your place.

I'm replying to you as a 39 year old nurse, with 9 years of experience, well above the average age of most nurse anesthesia school applicants. I own my home and we like where we live, so my husband and I aren't moving out of the area. That's a choice I've made, so my program selection is limited to those local to me. I weighed that choice when I decided to pursue this path. There are others who have decided to pick up and move their families across the country, those applicants exist too.

If I had decided to go back to school a few years ago, I too could have taken advantage of a MS program, but I wasn't ready. I'm not going to sit and complain about it. Instead, I'm doing it. This is poor timing and circumstances, that's all.

Defibn', RN, EMT-P · Feb 3, 2020

19 minutes ago, RN_2001 said:
Yes, of course I really did want an answer to the question and to the posters who did answer it I thanked them for their responses. The point of the rant was to explain the lead-up to the question and well, to vent. Surely there are other people out there who are frustrated for the same reason(s) I am?
As you can see from the thread progression, a poster seemed to feel (for some reason?) that it was somehow personal to them that I had an issue with the master's program phasing out prematurely. They also seemed to ASSume that it was because I was not willing to put in the effort for a doctorate and also that, not because of life circumstances, but because I didn't know what I wanted to do all of these years and suddenly this seemed like a good idea.
Yes, it is obvious to me now that my only choices are to move out of state to attend one of the few master's programs left or give up $300k+ (lost income + tuition) to attend a doctorate program.
Thank you, Juanito for being a voice of common sense and reason. I, myself am a nurturing, encouraging type of person while some people are an "eat their young" type. Sad!

OK. Yes, this is personal issue for me. My spouse, kids, and I picked up our lives to move out of state for school. I do have some encouragement for you. Go to school. You can make it through! If the 6-8 months of difference in time/money spent in school is the determining factor of you becoming an anesthetist or not, then you don't want it bad enough. If not, just admit that it is not worth it to you at this point in your life and be OK with that. All you were doing was stamping your feet because you don't like the way the game is played.

RN_2001 · Feb 3, 2020

9 minutes ago, Defibn' said:
OK. Yes, this is personal issue for me. My spouse, kids, and I picked up our lives to move out of state for school. I do have some encouragement for you. Go to school. You can make it through! If the 6-8 months of difference in time/money spent in school is the determining factor of you becoming an anesthetist or not, then you don't want it bad enough. If not, just admit that it is not worth it to you at this point in your life and be OK with that. All you were doing was stamping your feet because you don't like the way the game is played.

Who cares? Isn't that what a rant is? LOL geez. God forbid anyone ever expresses their frustration.

No, going into debt for $300k+ at this stage in my life isn't worth it.

sjbrk · Feb 3, 2020

Seems like you are now replying just to argue. I'm not at all worried that people won't apply/go to school bc of an "early" transition. I sold my home and moved 4000 miles away to go to school. My husband still works in our home state, so we see each other only when he can fly out.

I understand your situation is different than mine with multiple children and age, but there are many people in your same/similar situation who are making NA school work. They are the reason I'm not worried - they have the commitment and desire to really see this process through.
In my class alone, several people moved across country. One student (42 y/o) couldn't move their family due to logistics, and so he moved by himself. He sees them over holiday breaks. It does suck. They're making it work because it will be worth it to them.

My guess is you looked into NA bc you wanted the money, and realized it'd be a lot of working parts to actually get the degree. It's probably not for you. And, no, your stats don't impress me. Everyone in my class has those certs, and in less years of experience.

HappyCCRN1, BSN · Feb 3, 2020

On 2/2/2020 at 12:03 AM, RN_2001 said:
Anyone know of any online master’s CRNA programs for out of state students?

No, there are no online master’s CRNA programs.

On 2/2/2020 at 12:03 AM, RN_2001 said:
Hello all,
So I’ve been a (BSN) nurse for many years and finally decided to go back for a master’s in anesthesia only to find that the programs at the master’s levels have been phased out already even though they don’t really need to be until 2022?!
I am so freaking frustrated, especially because the anesthesia accreditation website shows search results for schools in my state when I select “master’s” for the search ?
How will this new requirement affect the demand for anesthetists when people (like me) don’t want to get a doctorate and say never mind, forget it? Yes, it’s “only” an additional year in school but...just no. /rant

The timing of this with your circumstances just suck. I’m sorry it’s not working out the way you envisioned. I can imagine the frustration of this. Your feelings are understandable and your wanting to vent/rant is understandable. Finding people to join in your woes can be therapeutic.
As you can tell already though, most of us are for this change. If you’re posting a rant on a public forum and didn’t expect someone to oppose your view and comment, then I would be truly shocked. If you wanted a more engaging, supportive, and productive conversation, you would have worded your original post differently.

I hope you find what you’re looking for.

random123 · Feb 4, 2020

17 hours ago, RN_2001 said:
Two years prematurely is hardly last minute, but whatever.
It was more than a couple, but OK.
Three undergraduate degrees, presidential Scholarship recipient, BSN from a Top Ten school with a 4.0 GPA, CCRN, CEN certifications, TNCC, PALS, ACLS, BLS, preceptor, charge nurse and a multiple-time participant in a career advancement ladder and you think this has to do with not wanting to put in effort? Wow, OK.
I no longer have the luxury of time (i.e. youth) to take an entire year or more off of work and lose that income, plus take on the expense of an additional year of tuition. I figured that this would be obvious from my posts and I can't imagine why you seem so defensive/hostile? about this.

You sound very defensive and hostile, but in the passive-aggressive way that reminds me of the co-workers I'm trying to get away from by going back to school.

Honestly, reading through this thread, the only person I saw with a poor attitude is you. If multiple people tell you that you're the problem, it's not a good idea to double down on your behavior.

To answer your question, there are no online crna programs and hopefully there never will be, lest the training and education devolve into the online diploma mill programs that plague the NPs.

Some programs will still admit a cohort of Master's students this year, before fully transitioning to DNP only. If it makes you feel any better I agree with your sentiments about MSN vs DNP, and the directors of the MSN schools I interviewed at straight up told us that they were holding out as long as possible before making the full switch to DNP.

You can email the programs you're interested in directly if you want to know if they will admit a Master's cohort.

I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors, and hope you have a wonderful life. Bye.

loveanesthesia · Feb 4, 2020

There was ranting when the switch from certificate to MS programs was announced. There were dire predictions that no one would pay to go to graduate school as the 18 month certificate programs (that paid the students a stipend) were phased out. The applicant pool grew and CRNA opportunities increased as the graduates who were very invested in the profession entered the workforce.

fourthtimesacharm, CRNA · Feb 4, 2020

On 2/2/2020 at 2:27 PM, RN_2001 said:
I'm an older established person with a family so moving for school is out of the question.

I hear you. My family stayed in our home, and I moved to go to school-thankfully I am in a master's program. But I will still be 27 mo away from my spouse and kids. Being a CRNA was really what I wanted to do, and thankfully my family is supportive. It's been hard, but we are making it work. I am also "mature" compared to my classmates. But the sacrifice of my RN salary along with tuition and living expenses to do a job I will love was worth it to me.

I am so sorry it isn't going to be something that you can pursue. Hopefully you can find something else that will be as fulfilling for you.

babyNP., APRN · Feb 4, 2020

Doctors pick up and move their families all the time through residency, fellowship, and first attending job. As do military families. Where there’s a will there’s a way.

It’s okay to be annoyed but you can’t fight city hall. Good luck with whatever you decide...