B&M vs Online

Nursing Students NP Students

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I see a whole lot of hate for the online Nurse Practitioner programs. I'm wondering if anyone has any statistics regarding poor performance based on whether a NP went the traditional route versus online?

Or are we assuming that they are lesser simply because they "must be" inferior?

Personally, I don't think that anyone should be going through an NP program without at least 3-4 years of solid nursing experience. I'm far more concerned about a young NP straight out of school who has no real-world healthcare experience than I am about an experienced RN going the online route for their NP.

Thoughts?

And to disclose, I am one of those online, for-profit school NP students that seem to draw all the negative attention. Of course, I've also been a nurse for about 14 years and have been in hospital administration for the last several years.

Specializes in Pediatric Critical Care.

The real point here is that online vs B&M is the wrong question, it is quality vs non-quality. There are some fantastic quality online and hybrid programs and there are some crappy ones. The same is true for B&M.

That said I paid for a decent name because I didn't want attend one of the several we know that are mocked, ego I guess. I'm not sure the actual education would be much different.

This was a concern of mine in choosing a school to attend. My options included a fairly low-ranked (for whatever thats worth) school that doesnt have much of a reputation outside of the state that would have had more in-person class time (but also online content), or a higher ranked school that scheduled classes in block format with a lot of online content to supplement the limited in-class time. It has successful graduates, a good pass rate, stricter entry requirements, was higher ranked, and a more well-known name. (Again, for whatever thats worth).

I was concerned that people would be like "Oh wow, great school....Oh, it was a distance program, online?" and judge it as "one of those online programs", regardless of any other positive attributes.

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Jules, you are entitled to your opinion. However, you are incorrect on two counts.

1) There are indeed global rankings of nursing schools

New Ranking of the World’s Top Nursing Schools | Top Universities

2) We have had this discussion elsewhere, but the studies that have been done have shown that RN experience actually has NEGATIVE correlation with NP clinical skills and also with MSN academic success.

3) You seem to have a very negative view of NP education in general. I don't know what this is based on. The only thing that matters is outcomes. Your personal biases are irrelevant. Why don't you back up your allegations? I've noticed you never do.

4) As far as online for-profit schools, it depends. Look, if you go to a top-ranked school, but do poorly you are going to be worse off than someone who went to a lesser-ranked school but was an excellent student (academics and clinical). Your prior experience will also matter - if you have solid experience that is a big plus.

5) There are many paths to a successful career. I know an extremely successful CRNA who started out as a "tech," got her RN at a community college and so on. Your posts seem designed to discourage people from becoming NPs, which is unfortunate.

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Can I ask, though, how we know that these online programs will admit "anyone who can pay"? See, to me that is an aspersion that cannot be readily supported. Aren't these programs sufficient enough so that their graduates pass boards? -- Or are we saying that boards aren't enough?

I see questions on here from new NPs (and I don't know whether they went online or B&M for their education) that seem pretty basic questions for an adult professional. Things like what lidocaine percentage to use, salary negotiations, ethics, etc. And then I think, "Holy crap, this person is, what, 25 years old with zero healthcare experience prior to NP school!" -- no wonder physicians are all up in arms about NPs.

Salary negotiations is quite complex, depending where you work. Working as an NP for a physician is different from working for a hospital as a nurse and you don't have as many protections. No NP should think that they have it all down at any time in their career. If you're transitioning from nurse to NP, you won't know what's considered a fair salary, so it's best to get advise from NPs in the area, then get a lawyer to go over the contract. Employers are not in business so that you can make a great living!

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Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.
Jules, you are entitled to your opinion. However, you are incorrect on two counts.

1) There are indeed global rankings of nursing schools

New Ranking of the World's Top Nursing Schools | Top Universities

2) We have had this discussion elsewhere, but the studies that have been done have shown that RN experience actually has NEGATIVE correlation with NP clinical skills and also with MSN academic success.

3) You seem to have a very negative view of NP education in general. I don't know what this is based on. The only thing that matters is outcomes. Your personal biases are irrelevant. Why don't you back up your allegations? I've noticed you never do.

4) As far as online for-profit schools, it depends. Look, if you go to a top-ranked school, but do poorly you are going to be worse off than someone who went to a lesser-ranked school but was an excellent student (academics and clinical). Your prior experience will also matter - if you have solid experience that is a big plus.

5) There are many paths to a successful career. I know an extremely successful CRNA who started out as a "tech," got her RN at a community college and so on. Your posts seem designed to discourage people from becoming NPs, which is unfortunate.

Not incorrect just unaware that there are global rankings of nursing schools, is Top Universities a reputable site? Not saying either way because I don't know but yeah, mine is up there and actually ahead of one people add on this site as extra fabu, lol. FWIW I am not making allegations about nursing education. I am expressing concerns and sharing my individual experience and opinion as someone who has completed 2 NP programs with first hand knowledge of diagnoses and prescribing patterns of patients of local NPs who I admitted to my acute psychiatric unit after they decompensated n=1 so theres that.

Until recently I was a huge champion of my RN peers becoming NPs however as I have posted, again my opinion only, I have grave concerns at the present based on the product I am seeing and the sheer numbers being churned out.

In addition to competence very high on my list of concerns is the wage issue. In my area new grad PMH-NPs make $150,000 right out of school so the increasing numbers as well as those who are nothing short of clueless as to how to negotiate or what an appropriate wage is in this specialty I remain concerned and far more particular about who I encourage to pursue this profession.

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Jules,

We need good NPs, especially in mental health. At least here in California, we have an acute shortage of mental health professionals, as well as primary care providers, especially in the inland areas of the state. I think it is important for NPs to encourage young people who are interested in this field. There will always be "clueless individuals" in every crowd, unfortunately, and I don't see any way to prevent that. There are also plenty of incompetent and unethical MDs. Respectfully, you seem to enjoy taking pot shots are everyone, without citing evidence other than anecdotes, and without providing solutions. I am concerned that this will discourage good people. So far, you have put down for-profit, online schools and you have also sneered at the highly ranked nursing schools. You have put down the importance of "book learning," but decried California's lack of a PMHNP certification requirement by saying one needs the academic prep to practice psych. You claim NPs need to have RN experience when the evidence does not support your assertion. These are not the statements of a positive, constructive professional.

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Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.
Jules,

We need good NPs, especially in mental health. At least here in California, we have an acute shortage of mental health professionals, as well as primary care providers, especially in the inland areas of the state. I think it is important for NPs to encourage young people who are interested in this field. There will always be "clueless individuals" in every crowd, unfortunately, and I don't see any way to prevent that. There are also plenty of incompetent and unethical MDs. Respectfully, you seem to enjoy taking pot shots are everyone, without citing evidence other than anecdotes, and without providing solutions. I am concerned that this will discourage good people. So far, you have put down for-profit, online schools and you have also sneered at the highly ranked nursing schools. You have put down the importance of "book learning," but decried California's lack of a PMHNP certification requirement by saying one needs the academic prep to practice psych. You claim NPs need to have RN experience when the evidence does not support your assertion. These are not the statements of a positive, constructive professional.

Actually I'm kind of on the fence about the online thing and will have to accept it like tele-medicine although not my preference definitely the way of the future, lol.

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Bad candidates go to bad schools because they are easy.

There are no easy med schools in america.

There are tons of easy NP schools.

Anybody can dunk a ball on a one foot high goal but not everyone can dunk on a 12 foot high goal or however high they are, I hate basketball.

Lectures are pointless but somehow people have to be tested on his or her knowledge prior to clinicals (tests)

Tests serve the purpose of basic understanding of the material, if you are at an online discussion post NP crapatorium, there is no guarantee you will know anything.

NP board exam was way too easy back when i took it. Maybe that has changed but probably not.

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Actually I'm kind of on the fence about the online thing and will have to accept it like tele-medicine although not my preference definitely the way of the future, lol.

Tele-medicine is the future especially if the GOP cuts medicaid and we see many of the rural hospitals close.

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The importance does not lie in whether the didactic content is delivered online or if you're sitting in a lecture hall. It's the quality of candidates admitted to the program and the quality of the program itself.

Everyone would agree with your statement (to an extent), as it seems obvious. But do we know that the "quality of the candidates" is somehow lesser and that the quality of the program itself, is lacking? Can you (or anyone) point to data that suggests that candidates from online programs (that you, at least) deem inferior, are actually turning out incompetent or borderline competent NPs? Are the certification rates that much different? Do we have scores of anecdotal stories about a few online schools that "always" seem to turn out terrible NPs?

Or is the fear-mongering because you don't like the "trailer trash" NPs horning in on the NP gig? -- I get that mentality, I really do. It irks me to see how "easy" RN schools seem to be on their students. Laid back clinicals and none of the starch and fear that permeated my RN school days. But, is it that they turn out worse nurses? -- I don't really think so.

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Can you (or anyone) point to data that suggests that candidates from online programs (that you, at least) deem inferior, are actually turning out incompetent or borderline competent NPs?

You didn't understand my comment. In my opinion, whether or not a school is distance or on campus is of no consequence. The type of students admitted to either type of program is what matters. If an online program admits high caliber students, and the program is of a high quality, then that NP will probably be a good practitioner. Conversely, if an in person program has low/no admission standards and a poorly constructed curriculum, then the graduate NPs will probably be fairly awful.

I am attending a hybrid program and am loving it. Some classes are recorded lectures and mostly reading, while others are live lectures. I have to go to campus for standardized patient scenarios, skills labs, etc. And all of my tests are proctored. Online programs can be done appropriately, however, there are many that are terrible and embarrassing and should be shut down.

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You didn't understand my comment. In my opinion, whether or not a school is distance or on campus is of no consequence. The type of students admitted to either type of program is what matters. If an online program admits high caliber students, and the program is of a high quality, then that NP will probably be a good practitioner. Conversely, if an in person program has low/no admission standards and a poorly constructed curriculum, then the graduate NPs will probably be fairly awful.

I am attending a hybrid program and am loving it. Some classes are recorded lectures and mostly reading, while others are live lectures. I have to go to campus for standardized patient scenarios, skills labs, etc. And all of my tests are proctored. Online programs can be done appropriately, however, there are many that are terrible and embarrassing and should be shut down.

Hello,

If you don't mind sharing, where do you go and which state do you live in? Thanks in advance.

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I'll PM you.

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