why are there still LPN courses?

Boog'sCRRN246, RN · Apr 27, 2009

"CNA's are cheaper, and are trained to do the same thing as the LPN."

Yeah, but legally, they are not supposed to be doing the same thing.

LPNs are utilized in more than just LTC facilities. They work in home health, Hospice, outpatient clinics, rehab facilities, and, although it's rare, I have seen LPNs in case management.

LPN courses still exist because not everyone has the finances or the time to go straight ahead to RN. Nor does every single LPN want to be an RN - it's not always a stepping stone.

flightnurse2b, LPN · Apr 27, 2009

oh here we go again.

yes, there is a market for LPN's. it depends on what part of the country you live in. and no, a med tech or a CNA is not the same as a LPN. i have a license.

i work in a hospital (yes, a hospital) and there are a bunch of us, in ER, postpartum, CVSD, M/S, TNCU and telemetry.

here is the list of things i cannot do per my scope of practice in the state of FL as a LPN at my facility:

-perform admission physical. (ongoing is OK)

-initiate care plan. (updating is OK)

-spike 1st bag of blood. (any subsequent bags are OK)

-draw blood from CVC. (PICC line is OK)

-push any IV meds that require close supervision such as pressors, unless under emergency circumstances per ACLS protocol (and yes, i am ACLS certified).

-be charge nurse.

i take eight patients a shift, on my very own, all on telemetry monitors, and i make $23.50 per hour. life isn't so bad as a LPN.

in my area, we are still highly utilized in hospitals, as well as LTC, home health, clinics, doctors offices, outpatient surgi centers, etc, etc.

i'm continuing on with my education to become an RN this summer and i don't regret taking the LPN route first. it worked best for my situation.

caliotter3 · Apr 27, 2009

Licensed nurses are educated. I have never met a CNA with documented, completed education that equaled that of a licensed nurse. CNAs are not "trained" to do what an LPN does. CNAs who have been caught doing the nurses job, because "in their country they are a 'nurse'", have caused the assigned licensed nurse to get terminated.

Lovely_RN, MSN · Apr 27, 2009

This is the topic that never dies. :icon_roll

Trust me if there was no need for LPNs then there wouldn't be any LPNs.

johnsboo · Apr 27, 2009

I'm sorry, I really wasn't trying to be derogatory in any way. It was just an observation from where I sit and what LPN's are telling me. I know how hard school is, and how much it costs, and am aware that everyone has to do what their own personal situation allows for.

I am also aware that a cna even with the special training courses to carry out many of the LPN duties, we are still working under the RN license, and that we are not to do anything without being under order of the charge nurse in doing them. Also we are told that unless we have completed our competency evaluations for these procedures we cannot perform them. I have completed my fundamentals of nursing course and am in my clinicals so I am allowed to do many more of the nursing procedures under supervision of my assigned RN and make a little more money than I did as an aide. Aide's here make about $8/hr, Nurse Tech is $18/hr. nice bit of extra money when you are struggling through school and have to cut down on hours to do clinicals. Basically it evens you out for the loss of hours.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Apr 28, 2009

Here in Florida, the market for LPNs in LTC is strong and the pay is relatively high....defnitely way higher than hospital LPNs, and defnitely higher than hospital CNAs.

In hospitals LPNs aren't used as much around here any more, as Joint Commission requires that each patient receive an "RN level of care".

jr9cna2lpn · Apr 29, 2009

After working as a CNA in a hospital for several years, and now being a student nurse going for my RN, I am wondering what the LPN position really does for anyone. I worked in long term care when I first became a CNA. After working in the hospital as a Medication Technician, and CNA/PCT, and now a Nurse Tech, I am wondering what LPN status really is. Because in the hospital, the CNA is given specialized training to do the very thing that LPN's are doing in the LTC facilities. Probably why none of the hospitals in my area use LPN's. CNA's are cheaper, and are trained to do the same thing as the LPN.
Many of the LPN's that were charge nurses in LTC did not have the management skills necessary to be charge nurses. Not to say many were very good with the staff and patients, but that seemed to be on a personal level of character, not something taught in nursing school.
Other than long term care, is there even a market for LPN's anymore? I have several LPN's in my RN course that are saying it was a waste of their time to go for the LPN, just to have to turn around and get the RN degree to get a job outside of home health or LTC.
Does anyone know what other opportunities there are for LPN's? I know the LTC pay rate for the LPN, is equal or in some cases even less than what CNA in a hospital is getting. And what about incentive programs for degree courses for LPN's to upgrade their education in a hospital. That needs to be addressed as well. Just something that I am seeing in the real world and would like an answer to.

Well I am a recent Licensed Practical Nurse. I worked as a CNA in nursing homes for the past 5yrs and all the CNA's in my LPN class f/ the hospital didn't even come close to what I made 5yrs ago. I have worked with lot's of LPN's that didn't know what the hell was going on around them and there are just as many RN's that are the same. The thing that I took the most f/ my hospital clinicals was it was a different type of nursing care required. In a hospital when you get a new pt, the first thing you plan is their discharge, it doesn't work that way in LTC! Another thing is all the hospitals I did clinicals in hired LPN's $15(I made close to that as a CNA, I didn't go through the program for $2 more). They've been saying for years that they were going to do away with LPN's, I'll believe it when I see it! My fiance is also a LPN and makes $20hr and I will work for no less than $17 base as an LPN. If there is a hospital that pays their aids that type of money please tell me, I would love to make that amount of money with less responsibility! Just remember LPN's in LTC can learn time management, hell you can probably be a doctor.....lol. The one thing that can't be learned is caring, compassion, and kindness that's something everyone in this field needs(CNA-DON)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

johnsboo · Apr 29, 2009

you are so right, I run into so many people in ALL levels of healthcare system, that have NO compassion or caring for human beings. Seems too many just want a paycheck. Very very sad. Or they have been in healthcare for many years, and gone through so much, they have become jaded and no longer care. Unfortunately they don't realize it's time to leave the profession when you get to that point.

Bettie P · Apr 30, 2009

...Or they have been in healthcare for many years, and gone through so much, they have become jaded and no longer care. Unfortunately they don't realize it's time to leave the profession when you get to that point.

Maybe some become discouraged when they realize that after being in the biz for 19 years they still come across people who don't understand how their position can be important, varied, different than a CNA's and still very relevant.

Lovely_RN, MSN · Apr 30, 2009

Exactly, people who haven't spent a minute in your shoes basically disregard and disrespect your title and then when you respond in a negative fashion they say it's because your jaded and uncaring.

Maybe some become discouraged when they realize that after being in the biz for 19 years they still come across people who don't understand how their position can be important, varied, different than a CNA's and still very relevant.

pagandeva2000, LPN · May 1, 2009

Well, personally, I am happy that they have LPN training and positions because I am not and never have been interested in becoming an RN. It seems to be too many extra responsibilities but with the same circumstances.

There are varied reasons why people enter LPN programs. Most are because the RN programs have long, competitive waiting lists, while for many, completing an LPN program gives a better advantage to enter into LPN to RN-BSN transitional courses as well as on line study. And, then, there are those, like myself who are just plain not interested. There is nothing wrong with earning an honest living. I do feel, however, that it is insulting to believe that just because a person is an LPN that they cannot obtain effective management skills-that is not so. It is all related to the individual personality and talents; not necessarily the degree.