WHY does a B.S. + RN not equal BSN

fakebee · Jul 18, 2011

My university offered an ADN and a BSN track when I went back to school. Because I already had a bachelors degree, I had the required humanities, sciences, and languages all bachelors programs require so my requirements for a BSN were strictly the nursing classes that entailed and a statistics class in order to understand how clinical research is conducted and evaluated. My additional nursing classes above those required for an ADN were nursing leadership, management, and research courses, additional clinicals in community health and critical care, an extended clinical preceptorship, and an independent research project to be submitted for approval for a possible future masters thesis. So my BSN entailed additional nursing specific classes above and beyond those required by an ADN curriculum and were nursing specific. In other words if you had a bachelors in botany, you wouldn't know how to propose, formulate, fund, and staff a low cost community health clinic from scratch (my senior group project) and I wouldn't know the 10 types of broadleaf ferns. Hope this helps.

netglow, ASN, RN · Jul 18, 2011

OP, your frustration is valid. Nursing can be trememdously successful at holding itself back as a profession.

There is a focus on the BSN no matter what your previous career successes or advanced degrees are. No, you (being intelligent) will not experience a measurable gain from a BSN over ADN. If you already have a degree or two and have excelled in your previous, a BSN feels like you are being forced to go get your hair colored pink because it is the "style" of the moment with the kids.

Another thing you must be careful of is the trend of out and out rejection of BA-MSN new nurses. Nobody in nursing of course understands that they need to interview the individual new nurse in the hiring process. Most BA-MSN nurses just want to be staff nurses and may never want to "manage" right out of the chute. They merely are trying to organize life/school to just get it done and know "school" will not work later on for them for what ever reason. But again, many hospital recruiters are fresh out of college. They are the worst people to do the jobs they hold! They don't have any idea what it is to have your edu/work experiences much less understand yet what it is they are supposed to do in their own field.

Also, I just don't understand the gain from all of this for the individual nurse. Remember you simply do not need a gazillion CRNAs or NPs out there. They way I look at it is that, like I mentioned elsewhere recently every body and their dog is planning on CRNA or NP these days it seems. I think we are talkin oversaturation.

nurseprnRN, BSN, RN · Jul 18, 2011

"please, someone - kindly- explain to me the difference between a bs degree in anything in conjunction with an rn license...and a bsn. i really want to know."

sorry, i didn't answer that. "bsn" is what some colleges and universities award you when you have completed their accredited bachelor's nursing major. some colleges and universities award you a bs-- my undergraduate diploma says, "upon recommendation of the faculty of the school of nursing" i get a bs-- my university just didn't choose to call it a bsn, but that's what it is. when you get a master's in nursing, you might get a msn or an mn depending only on what the university calls it. mine says the university (a different one) is conferring the degree of master in nursing to me on the recommendation of the university faculty.

the difference is that someone who has an associate's diploma in nursing who goes and gets a bs in mathematics does not have a bsn-equivalent. she has a nursing ad only; her nursing education was at a lower level (no, i am not starting that discussion again, but if you want to come to me in a private discussion we can chat about it). if she had an ad in english and then got a ba in french, she wouldn't have a ba in english even if her ba in french had her take some distribution requirements in english.

i really do hope that helps. go take the mn now, and explain it to your mom. she's right, you will do a lot better with a nursing degree above an associate's; your other academic work will serve you in good stead, and may even open some extra doors for you in nursing employment or research, but don't expect anyone to give you credit in nursing acdemia for them. it doesn't work like that.

Gabby820 · Jul 18, 2011

I know that BSN nurses get community theory and clinical that ADNs do not get. I wonder if they don't have the ethics or leadership classes that I've had...you generally don't get that sort of thing in other BS degrees.

I'm currently in a ADN program. What babyRN seems to be true. My professors are encouraging us to continue to get our BSN because there is more community theory classes that our ADN program doesn't offer. We get maybe one community class while those enrolled in a BSN program get more and then some. So it's not that you are fulfilling general education requirements but rather more nursing theory classes etc... Again, this is what my professors tell our class. You may also want to look at the nursing curriculum for your local 4 yr colleges and look into what additional classes are needed. You may find that you only need to complete nursing classes. Good Luck!

nerdtonurse?, BSN, RN · Jul 18, 2011

I'm in the same fix you are. However, as a person with prior degrees, you know your BS in Computers did not automatically qualify you to be a speech therapist; a degree in history doesn't make you an engineer. I'm looking at RN to MSN programs because I've looked at the classes the RN to BSN students are taking and they are relentlessly boring.

I think the problem I'm seeing is nursing can't be medicine, shouldn't be management, doesn't need to be research theory -- those programs already exist -- but they are throwing all the spare parts from other programs into it, and as a result, it looks chaotic in the programs I've looked at. We, as nurses, need to decide what's important for us to know in bedside nursing, what's important in ER/critical care, what's important in longterm care/geriatrics, and build programs that reflect reality. Maybe we'd keep more nurses in the field long term and they'd feel better prepared for the real world if they took classes in epidemiology, stress management in the workplace, clinical labwork results and processes (does water mess up that lipids panel or not?), and advanced classes in CHF/COPD/Diabetes management.

BearKat · Jul 18, 2011

You don't have to take another mess of general classes. I have a BS in another major and decided to go back and get a BSN 2 years later. I only took a few pre req classes, nutrition, a&p, micro, patho and then I was able to get into the 2 yr. program.

jlpsu · Jul 18, 2011

Thanks for the replies everyone. I seem to get what you are saying and the best explanation is that the Actual nursing courses are different for BS programs vs ADN programs.

I wish I could do the accelerated BSN programs just to get it out of the way, but the program is incredibly intensive and I have four children and a husband and the schedule just won't work for me. So, my plan is to go through the diploma program locally (very good reputation), then either do the RN-BSN bridge or straight to RN-msn. Really depends on where I want to end up, but I won't know that until I get some experience under my belt. Same reason I won't go into a direct entry MSN program.

Ive also looked into the local universities to see if I could just do the last 2 years of their BSN program, but because my sciences are so old and I need to redo them, in conjunction with their clinical classes starting in their second year...effectively would make me a freshman starting over in a four year degree. No thanks.

Thanks for the explanations everyone. It's really frustrating. It is interesting though to note that at least one local hospital had job listings requiring ' a BSN or a BS degree and an RN license' so it seems to some employers at least, the education is similar enough.

jlpsu · Jul 18, 2011

Thanks for the replies everyone. I seem to get what you are saying and the best explanation is that the Actual nursing courses are different for BS programs vs ADN programs.

I wish I could do the accelerated BSN programs just to get it out of the way, but the program is incredibly intensive and I have four children and a husband and the schedule just won't work for me. So, my plan is to go through the diploma program locally (very good reputation), then either do the RN-BSN bridge or straight to RN-msn. Really depends on where I want to end up, but I won't know that until I get some experience under my belt. Same reason I won't go into a direct entry MSN program.

Ive also looked into the local universities to see if I could just do the last 2 years of their BSN program, but because my sciences are so old and I need to redo them, in conjunction with their clinical classes starting in their second year...effectively would make me a freshman starting over in a four year degree. No thanks.

Thanks for the explanations everyone. It's really frustrating. It is interesting though to note that at least one local hospital had job listings requiring ' a BSN or a BS degree and an RN license' so it seems to some employers at least, the education is similar enough.

lalalalexi · Jul 18, 2011

From what I've found in my research on this, a BSN nurse has to take stats, community nursing, nursing leadership and sometimes an advanced assessment class that an ADN nurse doesn't take in their program. I, too, have a bachelor's in something else and an ADN and would LOVE to not have to get a BSN. I go back and forth whether I will or not (I'd probably go the RN-MSN route myself). It makes it frustrating for me since it's harder to get good financial aid (Pell Grants etc) when you're going for a second bachelors. I already have TONS of student debt from my other two degrees, that taking out any more loans or financing another degree is very unappealing to me and my family.

If I were wanting to go into management or some kind of higher position, I can understand the need for a BSN, but as a floor nurse, who performs the exact same tasks as a BSN floor nurse, I just can't wrap my head around having to trudge through more schooling.

I DO think that a non-nursing bachelor's degree should be at least recognized (and generally it's not) and get a little bit higher pay. It ultimately does equal more education and enrichment, and I think that needs to be recognized. For example, my mom, who is a high school teacher, earned a master's degree in something other than education, then years later went back and got her teaching license. She gets paid quite a bit more than a bachelor's prepared teacher, even though her masters has nothing to do with education. But in nursing it's like, you either have an ADN or BSN and nothing else matters.

Southern Magnolia · Jul 18, 2011

Just b/c you have a BS degree doesn't mean you've studied the SCIENCE of nursing. BS degrees are not interchangeable. The matter of having the RN has no bearing. The RN (ADN, AS) is an applied degree not a Bachelor's. The highest degree you hold IN NURSING is the point. It's not a matter of employers arbitrarily requiring a degree - you really haven't covered the curriculum that would grant one a Bachelor degree in nursing.

Southern Magnolia · Jul 18, 2011

From what I've found in my research on this, a BSN nurse has to take stats, community nursing, nursing leadership and sometimes an advanced assessment class that an ADN nurse doesn't take in their program. I, too, have a bachelor's in something else and an ADN and would LOVE to not have to get a BSN. I go back and forth whether I will or not (I'd probably go the RN-MSN route myself). It makes it frustrating for me since it's harder to get good financial aid (Pell Grants etc) when you're going for a second bachelors. I already have TONS of student debt from my other two degrees, that taking out any more loans or financing another degree is very unappealing to me and my family.
If I were wanting to go into management or some kind of higher position, I can understand the need for a BSN, but as a floor nurse, who performs the exact same tasks as a BSN floor nurse, I just can't wrap my head around having to trudge through more schooling.
I DO think that a non-nursing bachelor's degree should be at least recognized (and generally it's not) and get a little bit higher pay. It ultimately does equal more education and enrichment, and I think that needs to be recognized. For example, my mom, who is a high school teacher, earned a master's degree in something other than education, then years later went back and got her teaching license. She gets paid quite a bit more than a bachelor's prepared teacher, even though her masters has nothing to do with education. But in nursing it's like, you either have an ADN or BSN and nothing else matters.

I see your point but just FYI - your prior degree will count if you go back because you SHOULD get credit for your general education/ liberal arts classes. I am about to start a BSN program and will only take core nursing courses - aside from the specific prerequisites I had to take that I hadn't already had ( stats, Pathophys, . . .).

LuxCalidaNP · Jul 18, 2011

...Because if you applied for a job in counseling with a BS in chem, you wouldn't get it because you didn't have the type of training. Yes, an ADN gives you an excellent entry into nursing, but the BSN curriculum is very different, much more emphasis on research, pathophys and pharm. You have to have earned a BSN to use those credentials.