Should I get my ADN or BSN based on my life goals?

MsJrenae · Nov 8, 2011

this is one of the most contentious issues in nursing: the level of education needed for a profession. as many of the an'rs know, i come down squarely on the side of a bs in nursing or bsn as entry-level educational preparation. when i had smaller kids and they asked me a question, i always asked them, "do you want the short answer or the long one?" since i can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times they ever said, "short" and still have enough left over for the boy scout salute, here it is again.
(disclaimer: have worked as a staff nurse, inservice/staff development, instructor, nclex prep course instructor, case manager in multiple settings, and other stuff too numerous to mention. in short, been around, seen that, done that.)
what's a profession? is nursing a profession? what's the basic educational prep for people you think of as professionals? would you want your chemistry research done by someone with an associate degree? your child taught high school math or english? your income tax advising? sure, there are good people with lower level education who succeed in life, but don't let that "we all have the same license and sit for the same exam" fool you. better education makes you better at what you do. there are any number of people who can give you examples of bsns or mns who don't know how to take a rectal temp (why does everyone focus on that and bedpans when they think of nursing, anyway?) and marvelous crusty old lpns who saved the resident's butt one dark and stormy night, but for every single one of those i will see your anecdote and raise you half a dozen godawful errors made by nurses who didn't take the coursework and didn't get exposed to the idea of autonomy in school.
time: the bachelor's degree takes four years. the associate's degree (as or asn) takes ... three and a half, once you count all the prerequisites you're going to have to take before they admit you into the nursing program. and those who say you can work on your bsn while you are working as an rn with an as don't tell you (and maybe don't know, to be charitable) that many of your course hours from the as program are not transferrable, so it won't just be a matter of a semester or two or three. and working as a nurse is hard, almost as hard as nursing school ... think you'll have the mental, physical, social, and financial energy for more education at the same time? oh, and in most jurisdictions you can't sit for the lpn exam and work as one while partway thru a as or bsn program anymore, either.
job opportunities: although the old a-nurse-is-a-nurse-is-a-nurse attitude is fortunately fading away, at entry level for new grads, about the same, and i realize that people who are just starting out have a very incomplete idea of what it means to be a nurse. however, go visit a hospital to look around the place and see who's working. are you planning to be older some day? do you see older nurses working in those entry-level staff or charge positions? if not, where did they all go? why do you care? you think you'll just be a sahm, right? hope that boyfriend of yours is independently wealthy, hon, cuz you'll be working.
well, suppose you work on a general medical floor and get entranced by cardiac rehabilitation after following a patient who did it. a job comes up in the department, hooray! oops, bsn only. or you find your heart drawn to helping underserved women in a public health clinic for high-risk pregnancy. sorry, bsn only in public health. after five or six years as a staff nurse you have become a resource to new hires and your peers and you realize you have a gift for teaching. you see that a position in staff development has come open, and you are first in line at hr to apply. you got it.... bsn is the minimum. school nursing? bsn. hurt your back and want to go for a job in case management? bsn. you discover you have a gift for asking, "why do we do it this way?" and are amazed to find you want to look into jobs in management or nursing research.....bsn minimum. you are starting to get the picture now. also, many, many practice settings give you a differential for bsn. no, i know, not all, but hey. one more factor.
growth: the questions in the licensure exams (nclex) are developed from errors made in the first year of practice by new grads, and regardless of pass rates from different level programs, anyone in practice can confirm the research: in the first year of work all new grads perform at about the same level as they get their feet under them and get used to the idea of working as an rn. but after that year, the bsns pull ahead in ways that are related to their higher level of education. why? because what we call in the ed biz "psychomotor skills," the things you do with your hands, can be done by anyone with enough practice. hell, we teach lay people how to do peritoneal dialysis at home or suction tracheostomies. but the understanding of why some things are as they are is something you get in better education: more science, more sociology, more psychology, more history, a basic statistics class, exposure to more clinical settings (i doubt if you'll get a full semester in peds, psych, ob, or any public health at all in any as program) give you the insight to ask better questions and make better decisions.
well, dear, if you really want to be a nurse, don't you want to find yourself in the camp of folks who are grateful they learned more, rather than the ones who find they had to for advancement or competence and wish they'd done it in the first place? my answer is clear.
i just love reading your replies to these threads!! i had the same question as the op. i am 30 yrs young, broke with no money for school, no kids, or husband yet!!! :lol2: i am leaning towards an adn simply because it is the cheapest way to go and i really dont want alot of debt after graduation. you really put things into perspective in your answers and i luv the fact that you break your rationale down!!!!!!! :tku: i just need to go ahead and get my bsn, who knows, i may just win the lottery!! :d

neatnurse30 · Nov 8, 2011

In my area, hospitals want BSN nurses, so it will be hard to get a job for you later if you only have an associate. I would think really hard if I were you- nursing school is extremely exhausting! And then plenty of stress later at work working as a nurse. Think again why you want to be a nurse, maybe you could volunteer in the hospital to see if you even can picture yourself working as a nurse.

Things are changing rapidly these days- in my hospital they only hire BSN nurses. For nursing supervisors/managers Masters degree is mandatory- ( BSN) is not enough like it used to be.

xtxrn, ASN, RN · Nov 8, 2011

I dont want to get into the managing or later become an LPN.
Is it harder to get a job with an associates degree?my mom says the demand for nurses is so high that it isnt.
Won't I get paid nearly the same as one with a BSN? my reaseach and mom says yes.
Cant I just go and get my BSN after my ADN if I cant find a job(those chances r low)? yes i believe so.
What do you all think???? Sorry it was so long. I really need your advice! :eek:HELP HELP HELP!

You'd have to go "backwards" to get an LPN :) RNs are a higher level of nursing.

Look at the threads here about getting jobs- a LOT of people (ADN or BSN) are having a LOT of trouble getting any nursing job, let alone the one they hoped to get.

You can get a BSN after you ADN- and some places will pay for your education.

The starting wages for ADNs and BSNs are very similar- and even down the road, for a staff nurse, it's still close, and not a good reason to get a BSN (you will need a BSN, however for many bigger cities if you want to go into management; in smaller towns, if you have good experience and common sense, you can still be promoted/considered for management jobs). The part of the country you live in also makes a difference- as does the difference between urban and rural locations.

Good luck :)

Fixit · Nov 9, 2011

Be sure you really want to be an RN for love of the work. The work is not as simple as you think and jobs aren't as plentiful as you have been told.

You are very young so you have time to decide what type of work enjoy most. Don't assume you will be able to quit working when you have a family. The economy and your personal financial picture can change.

Also the profession is moving toward BSN as baseline for entry so imo that is what you must aim for. Please don't think you can graduate from high school, go to a 2 year cc program and viola you become an RN. Many people have that misconception. It takes longer than 2 years to get an ADN becaue you'll need A's in many prerequisite courses. On the road to becoming a nurse it helps if you enjoy studying.

Best of luck.

AJPV · Nov 9, 2011

My ADN program has separate full-semester courses for OB, peds, and psych. I guess the fatal flaw of our program is that we condense our community clinical experience into about 30 hours instead of a full semester-long clinical (which would be about triple those hours).

My second point - the BSN curricula in our area looks earily similar to my ADN program. The first year is pre-req's - the student is considered a "pre-nursing" major at this time. No nursing theory or clinical courses. The first year is chemistry, a&p, psych, sociology, history, english composition, western civ, history of art, etc. (many of the same pre-req's we take for our ADN except for 1 or 2 liberal arts classes). The only difference is that the student gets to "enjoy" the $300/credit tuition attached to these pre-req's at the fancy four-year university. Then in the spring of the freshman semester, a "pre-nursing" student applies to get into the actual nursing major. Upon acceptance, the BSN student completes nursing courses using many of the same text books we use with clinicals at the same hospitals - sometimes even with the same clinical instructors! I have had clinical instructors who teach us one day of the week and BSN students the next day. So in the case of the BSN, you have 3 actual school years of nursing courses where you take nursing courses at a bit slower pace than we do in the ADN because the classes are interspersed with stats, management, research papers and the like.

I seriously wouldn't have a problem saying that the BSN is superior when it comes to preparing bedside nurses - if that were actually the case, and if the BSN curricula actually focused on clinical knowledge & skills in a way that the ADN major lacks. But it seems that the curricula largely misses the mark in that respect, which is in fact reflected by the BSN's non-superior NCLEX pass rate. I am going on to complete my BSN - but sadly, I am not doing it because I feel like it will make me a better bedside nurse. I am simply doing it for job security and market mobility. I realize that if I actually want to grow significantly in clinical knowledge and skills, I will need to continue at the masters level or complete professional certification courses.

earthcrosser · Nov 9, 2011

[color=greengrowth: the questions in the licensure exams (nclex) are developed from errors made in the first year of practice by new grads, and regardless of pass rates from different level programs, anyone in practice can confirm the research: in the first year of work all new grads perform at about the same level as they get their feet under them and get used to the idea of working as an rn. but after that year, the bsns pull ahead in ways that are related to their higher level of education. why? because what we call in the ed biz "psychomotor skills," the things you do with your hands, can be done by anyone with enough practice. hell, we teach lay people how to do peritoneal dialysis at home or suction tracheostomies. but the understanding of why some things are as they are is something you get in better education: more science, more sociology, more psychology, more history, a basic statistics class, exposure to more clinical settings (i doubt if you'll get a full semester in peds, psych, ob, or any public health at all in any as program) give you the insight to ask better questions and make better decisions.

my nursing school (which was not a community college) taught both adns and bsns. i was responsible for knowing, understanding, and applying all the content that the bsn students were learning, i simply did not get all the credit for the extra courses that they took, like epidemiology and research. i have just as many prerequisites as a bsn student, but at the time, they had a spot open only for an adn student, so i took it. i do agree that people should aim for bsn degrees, however, i don't like being discounted as a nurse, simply because i'm an adn.

to the op, nursing is really not as crazy high in demand as your mother is thinking. yes, there are jobs, however, they are often harder to come by for new grads...and those jobs may be in less desirable (to you) areas, depending on what kind of nursing you want to do. a lot of hospitals are really pushing for bsn grads only for magnet status (amongst other reasons), so your job prospects may be limited getting an adn.

futuretravelrn · Nov 9, 2011

Although Grntea and others make great points about the BSN, here is another perspective, granted not applicable to this OP. If someone is fresh out of high school or has no college degree, I say absolutely go for the BSN - you want the college experience and the whole enchilada, absolutely!

However, the ASN still really works for people like myself who have existing Bachelor's degrees in other fields. We have a well rounded education, albeit in something else. To retake stats, humanities, histories, etc....is just extra money in my opinion that doesn't need to be spent. (And time) Now does that mean you won't need that BSN? That completely depends on your goals/career trajectory...

If you live in an area where you know that you can get hired as a nurse, regardless of ASN/BSN, if you are willing to tech your way to your nurse job, and if you impress on clinicals (which many second career changers do!, we already know how the working world revolves) then maybe that's your option. If you know you want to bridge into your BSN, but you need to get working quickly, or want that actual experience first, go ASN.

I deliberately made the choice I did, ASN, after very very carefully researching my career plan, and the specific area I work in.

Be sure to do the same.

kenyacka · Nov 9, 2011

You're so young! Get your 4 year degree! The trend is going towards hiring more and more BSNs so why not just go for it? However, if you're looking for a "simple career" I don't think nursing is what you want lol

mmc51264, BSN, MSN, RN · Nov 9, 2011

Ditto on the teaching. I am a former teacher BACK in school to be a nurse (ADN program- one semester left!!!!!!!!) because they are cutting teaching positions left and right

. I needed to get back to work ASAP so the ADN route was best for me. The timing didn't work for an ABSN, so I will work and BSN (or MSN if I can get in-already have one Masters)

I will reiterate what the others said: Nursing school is HARD. It has been harder than graduate school was. If you're up for the challenge, go for it. I would do the BSN if I were your shoes.

HTH and Good Luck with whatever you decide:)

all4ofus, ASN, RN · Nov 9, 2011

It depends heavily on where you are. In my area, there is a definite hiring preference for BSNs. In other areas, there isn't. If you want cheap but still want the BSN, go public university vs. private school.

Someone said, "many of your course hours from the AS program are not transferrable." This is b.s. Where I live, the community colleges partner with universities so that all of your courses transfer and you can complete the RN-BSN bridge entirely online in a year, for an overall cost between the two programs that's less than the BSN students paid who went university all the way. I figure the reason is that the university knows you already have your license; they just want your money. So they offer that bridge for really cheap to those of us who are already licensed; cheaper than they offer their own students who go BSN from the get-go. And this leads me to the next point: someone said a BSN gives you "more science, more sociology, more psychology, more history, a basic statistics class." ALL of these were prereqs for my ADN. I do NOT have to take any more of these classes to bridge. This same person claimed, "exposure to more clinical settings;" again, this is a false claim. I do clinicals for my ADN in the same hospitals as the BSNs. I've heard we do more clinical hours as well, but haven't compared requirements to know whether this is a fact or not. What I do know, though, is that I am bridging to BSN after ADN for less money, all online, and that all of the classes are related to management/delegation b.s. that is either common-sense or not. I DON'T feel I will be a better nurse for the BSN, but that I am getting the BSN because the market is calling for it.

Guest 360983 · Nov 9, 2011

Why are you looking at nursing? It's physically hard work (you have the 400 pound immobile patient tonight), it has terrible hours (nights, weekends, holidays), it's stressful, it's gross (even if blood and puke and poop don't bug you, you will find something that makes you gag, from the smell of C. Diff to maggots in a wound), and it can be very, very sad (dead babies, abused children, a 30 year old with half of his brain destroyed in a car wreck...).

If you're an artist, go with that. You could go into advertising as an art director. You could be a graphic designer. There are many options beyond starving artist.

all4ofus, ASN, RN · Nov 9, 2011

does anyone else see the irony in the way this is written?

"but those chances r low. we rnt ur typical teens/young adults."