RN with BSN and feeling stupid

PMFB-RN, RN · Nov 9, 2012

Most social workers (and I say most, not all.) have semi normal work schedules as well. I don't know many social workers who are required to work nights, weekends or holidays. I just can't see many people wanting to get their MSN just to end up working nights, every other weekend and every other holiday while dealing with bodily fluids and the hard physical demanding labor AND still only starting out at $20-21 an hour (that is what new grads make around here) If the wage for RNs went up significantly I could see it, but there are many other fields you could go into with a masters and get paid better and have better working conditions. You never know though I suppose. Only time will tell.

My wife is a child protective social worker for the county. I admit that many of the things she deals with are very sad, ut so are many thing I deal with as as RN. She is on call one night a month incase a child must be removed during the night. She actually gets called out about one out of three nights she in on call. So maybe 4 nights a year she must work at night. She gets every holiday off and never has to work weekends. She has also never been punched by one of her clients, were I have been hit too many times to count, stabbed by a patient wth a needle, kicked, spit on, bit, and once had a telephone thrown at me that hit me in the head. I regularly am exposed to infectious deseases and on many occasions have been so covered in one body fluid or another (including once being covered in cerebral spinal fluid, gotta love trauma) that I have had to shower and change scrubs at work. It's true that I make more than twice as much as she does and I got my job with an associates degree, but neither she, nor her co-workers think I am getting the better deal.

llg, PhD, RN · Nov 9, 2012

That says a lot.
I have never said that the entry-level BSN route was the best for everybody. Nor did I say that there are NO people who regret going the BSN route. However, I remain firm in my belief that there is very little of such resentment among my generation of nurses -- and those that came before me -- who are now in leaderhip positions and leading the efforts to upgrade nursing educational standards. The motivation behind the proposals for upgrading the educational standards is not based on the kind of resentment you refer to in your previous post. Having been a nurse for over 30 years and active in professional organizations that address such issues I am quite certain of that.
The resentful, bitter nurses who regret their own professional choices in life are rarely found among the leaders of nursing organizations.

PMFB-RN, RN · Nov 9, 2012

That says a lot.
I have never said that the entry-level BSN route was the best for everybody. Nor did I say that there are NO people who regret going the BSN route. However, I remain firm in my belief that there is very little of such resentment among my generation of nurses -- and those that came before me -- who are now in leaderhip positions and leading the efforts to upgrade nursing educational standards. The motivation behind the proposals for upgrading the educational standards is not based on the kind of resentment you refer to in your previous post. Having been a nurse for over 30 years and active in professional organizations that address such issues I am quite certain of that.
The resentful, bitter nurses who regret their own professional choices in life are rarely found among the leaders of nursing organizations.

*** I do not share your assertion that there is an effort to upgrade nursing education standards. It is my opinion than current nursing education standards are dismal and I see no evidence thyat there is any attempt to improve them. I do hear calls for more nurses to have BSNs but that is not, in my opinion, an "upgrade" given the current low standards found in BSN programs.

I believe that the ADN programs attract a diversity and strenght to nursing lacking in the other health fields. This diversity is an assest to nursing that we would be much the worse without.

I have also become so cynical in reguard to so-called nursing organizations that I don't believe any discussuion of them would be constructive.

MunoRN, RN · Nov 16, 2012

Believe me, you did it right. As of right now, a few places in the country don't treat BSN nurses any differently, but they are the exception. The rest of the advanced/intelligent nursing world has taken note. Many leading hospitals require at least a BSN. Many of the top Chicago hospitals are that way now. Even if you've been a nurse at one of their Magnet facilities for 15+ years, you will be given a 5 year timeframe to complete your BSN or you're out.
In addition, none of the armed forces will accept less than a BSN. Many of the nursing associations are pushing for a BSN to be the new requirement, making an ADN literally useless. It won't be long before a MSN is required, like the other professions (law, medicine, clergy).
So, no, you did not make a mistake. Hang in there. Your extra classes will become evident in the long run, believe me.

BSN preference varies widely based on region, areas with a high concentration of BSN programs tend to have more BSN only employers, but it's hardly overwhelming. The hospital I work at only recently started hiring BSN Nurses again, after a 3 year hiring freeze on BSNs. Which isn't because we're low quality, we're in the top 5% in the Nation for Emergency and Critical care and we're ranked in the top 5% in 6 specialties as well.

The armed forces do not require a BSN. Joining the Army with an ADN will make you a PFC E-3 (below a BSN). Entry as a "Direct Commissioned Officer" requires a BSN.

The ANA took the position in 1965 that a BSN should be the level of entry into Nursing. Since then only North Dakota has made it a requirement and that only lasted 3 years. MSN might be required someday, but unless you plan on still being in the field 75 years from now it's probably not going to affect you.

After taking part in a committee that was to implement a BSN program in my state, that eventually rescinded the plan, I can tell you that while their are advantages, they aren't as advertised, and the process for making this happen is impractical if not impossible, at least in terms of direct BSN programs (as opposed to ADN to BSN pathways).

AutoRotate, MSN, RN · Nov 26, 2012

1)

The armed forces do not require a BSN. Joining the Army with an ADN will make you a PFC E-3 (below a BSN). Entry as a "Direct Commissioned Officer" requires a BSN.

If you want to be a nurse in any branch of the armed forces, you MUST have at least a BSN. Period.

2) Until the ANA has membership from anywhere close to a majority of nurses, it will never have any real influence over policy. You only have to look at the infighting on this forum to see why we as a profession can't get our act together and make real changes in healthcare.

3) I still don't understand how anyone could think that more education, of any kind, could hinder your abilities as a nurse. If you want to take the shortest route to becoming a floor nurse, and the hospitals in your area hire ADN's, then go for it. If you want the experiences and well-roundedness of a 4 year BSN, go for it. Speaking only for the nurse job-market in San Diego, good luck getting hired if you don't have a BSN or commensurate life experience.

turnforthenurse, MSN, NP · Nov 26, 2012

Having a BSN gives you an advantage although it may not seem like it right now. Some areas of nursing require a BSN, such as public health positions or if you decide to join the armed forces and do nursing there. A lot of hospitals are now hiring nurses who AT MINIMUM have a BSN. Having a BSN also provides you the opportunity to scale the clinical ladder into leadership positions, educational positions and advanced practice nursing.

PMFB-RN, RN · Nov 27, 2012

If you want to be a nurse in any branch of the armed forces, you MUST have at least a BSN. Period.

*** That is true at the moment but very subject to change. I have observed many changes in this policy over the years. They even used to take ADNs on active duty. Belive me the second they can't fill their slots with BSNs the standards will chaneg again, as they have many times before.

2) Until the ANA has membership from anywhere close to a majority of nurses, it will never have any real influence over policy. You only have to look at the infighting on this forum to see why we as a profession can't get our act together and make real changes in healthcare.

*** Well that won't happen so long as the ANA continues to endorse anti-nurse measures. If they want more members they need to start working on behalf of the hard working bedside RNs who make up the vast majority of nurses.

3) I still don't understand how anyone could think that more education, of any kind, could hinder your abilities as a nurse.

*** I haven't seen anyone make that argument. Got a quote of somebody saying that?

allnurses Guide · Nov 27, 2012

. . .I have also become so cynical in reguard to so-called nursing organizations that I don't believe any discussuion of them would be constructive.

So have I. The more I learn about their history with regard to this issue, the more I believe the 40-year war they've waged against diploma and ADN nurses (they rarely acknowledge that LPNs actually exist so I omitted them) I think they've damaged the profession and perpetuated a fracturing that permeates nursing culture. It's especially pernicious when the "we all need to just agree on a single entry to practice" implying those who disagree are obstructionists when the only single entry into practice they will ever sign onto is the one they've been pushing for all along.

We now have newer BSNs upset because they feel their education is under attack when what is really happening is the ADN nurses/nursing programs are defending themselves. People need to look at the history since 1965 to really get the whole picture and it isn't pretty. Lest it be said again that having a negative view of nursing organizations means a person is "against education", I think that if these groups hadn't relentlessly perpetuated an "us vs them" attitude and revamped their tactics to be supportive of and inclusive towards diploma and ADN nurses the ball would be much further down the court today. It's actually kind of sad.

PatMac10,RN, RN · Nov 27, 2012

*** Until very recently the ADN had HUGE advantages over the BSN and I used to wonder why anyone, other than new high school cgrads who needed the whole "college experience" would do the BSN.
Like you I went through a 9 month critical care nurse residency program for new grads going into ICU.
Lets consider Dick and Jane. Both high school senior and both want to be RNs and both live in my state and both have ambitions for managment or, let's say CRNA school.
Dick graduates and heads down to the local community college and enrolls in the ADN program. The total cost is about $6,500 and takes two years. After two years Dick lands a job is a large hospital's nurse residency program for new grads going directly into the ICU. Dick's hospital also has a program to pick up 100% of the cost of an RN to BSN program so Dick enrolls and finishes in two years of part time school and full time work. It's now 4 years since high school graduation. Dick is an RN BSN (maybe CCRN too)with 2 years of solid ICU experience under his belt. Plus he also made about $120K, had good health insurance, and made contributions to his 401K over those two years working. He owes nothing in student loans and gets to keep his paycheck instead of making student loan paytments. He has made many contacts in the hospital and has proven himself a good worker. He is well positioned to apply for an assistant nurse manager job, or apply to CRNA school.
Meanwhile Jane has enrolled in and graduated from the local universitie's BSN program. The program cost $12K a year and she had to barrow about $40K to graduate. She has zero nursing experience, has made no money and is applying for her first nursing job as an unknown with few contacts. Let's say she gets hired into the same nurse residency Dick did. Soon Jane is introduced to her night shift preceptor, her old high school buddy Dick. Jane learns that Dick has applied for an assistant nurse manager job and also has an interview with a CRNA program.

Thank you! I am a senior nursing student in am ADN program. I will graduate from nursing school in May of 2013. I just turned 20 in October and I am taking the same route as "Dick". I currently work at a local hospital as a PRN NA in the float pool and plan to work fulltime. By the time all of my friends graduate from their BSN programs in 2014 I will be graduating with my BSN 2 months later after doing the bridge program (designed for working nurses to be completed in 13-18 months if majority of requirements are met, which I do meet) the local university AND will have a year of experience under my belt. And I am approaching my last semester if school and have yet to take out a student loan, unlike my friends who are just finishing their first semester if nursing school and already have 1 or 2 "small" loans.

You have to trust that you made the right decision for you. Idk what you recognition you were expecting. The only recognition the BSN nurses get at our hospital is the right to put BSN on their badge.

Getting your BSN is a very good thing and will likely be the requirement in the future, but that doesn't mean the traditional BSN route is the best and only way to go about getting there. With the increase in the amount if RIBN programs (Regionally Increasing Baccalaureate in Nursing) popping up government and educational institutions are seeing the value of getting ADN education to get licensure and then see less transition into Bachelor level coursework while completing initial licensure education.

akulahawkRN, ADN, RN, EMT-P · Nov 27, 2012

There are those of us that have already earned their first Bachelor's who are/were essentially locked-out of any second Bacherlor's program. If I had been able to even apply to the BSN program in my area, I would have done it along with my ADN school applications. Why? It's simple, really: either program would have been a 2-year (4 semester) ride, so it wouldn't have made any difference in terms of time-to-completion. The only major difference between the two programs would have been tuition, and I probably could have gotten that covered through a grant anyway.

Where can I go from here? Quite simply, should I desire entry to a Master's level program (or higher) I can simply take a couple classes as a "Post-Bacc" student and get the necessary qualifications that way. I wouldn't need a BSN, just that I have similar preparation to enter Graduate School. Once accepted into Grad school, I could probably then "go back" and finish the 2 or 3 other classes needed for the BSN while waiting for Grad School to start.

The end result right now is that I'll finish my ADN with essentially zero debts and be able to get a BSN later with minimal additional cost, far cheaper than doing a full-on BSN program (even if it were only 2 years).

uniquenurse36 · Nov 28, 2012

Wow to say that an ADN will be useless. I started out as a CNA, CMT, LPN, RN-ADN, and I will be graduating with my BSN next month and have already applied to an MSN program. I don't feel like anything I have been through is useless. Actually a person that goes directly to a four year nursing program and has not prior nursing experience comes out of school feeling useless and I have been told this. They depend on the LPN, RN-ADN, and also other BSN's to train them. I wouln't change anything about the way I obtained my education. All nurses and all other healthcare personal from the CNA to the RN,MSN are all special and an asset to the healthcare field.

uniquenurse36 · Nov 28, 2012

Actually in the hospital where I work there are associate degree nurses in management positions. Actually some of them are the supervisors over BSN nurses. I don't understand where your thinking comes from. It is great to further your education, but don't think that because you have a few extra initials behind your name that you are better than the next nurse. Your skills and bedside manner are what speaks for the kind of nurse you are not those initials.