NY State may require nurses to obtain 4-year degrees - page 27

But some worry that an already severe shortage will become worse. New York is mulling over a requirement that would force all RNs to earn a bachelor's degree in order to keep their RN... Read More

  1. by   Lammy
    although true that most professions are BS or MS degreed, they also offer summers off, school schedules, opportunity for commission, lunch and potty breaks, protection from verbal, physical and sexual abuse, contracts that provide you with salary increases, as well as being able to go to bed by 11. Did I mention that we have the exclusive on all the bodily secretions a PROFESSIONAL RNBSNMSNPHDCYA could ever want? Hurry folks sign up for your $40,000 degree.
  2. by   ~Anne~
    Does having your BSN make you a better nurse ???? I probably shouldnt say this , and im sure someone will be offended , but most BSN grads that i work with , (and even they agree) did not get very much clinical experience , as the 2 and 3 year programs seem to get . Maybe things have changed , but in my opionion , if you have the "calling " to be a nurse, you dont need a BSN degree to make you good at what you do !
  3. by   lindarn
    Quote from ~Anne~
    Does having your BSN make you a better nurse ???? I probably shouldnt say this , and im sure someone will be offended , but most BSN grads that i work with , (and even they agree) did not get very much clinical experience , as the 2 and 3 year programs seem to get . Maybe things have changed , but in my opionion , if you have the "calling " to be a nurse, you dont need a BSN degree to make you good at what you do !
    ALL NEW GRADS would benefit from a 6-12 month paid internship such as PTs, OTs, Pharmacists, etc. have to accomplish before they are turned out on their own. A big part of their burn out within a short time after graduation is the "sink or swim" mentality of the nursing profession.

    Nurses seem to feel that they need to be able to "hit the ground running", the day after graduation, and if you can't there is something wrong with you, and/or the nursing program that you attended.

    College is where you learn the science behind what you do. An internship is where you learn the nuts and bolts, and practical aspects of your profession.

    This concept has worked well for physicians, PTs, OTs, Pharmacist, etc. All professions that have a much higher level of education for entry into practice, are rewarded with far more respect than nurses, and make far more money than nurses do. Its not the license, its the education! CONNECT THE DOTS!!

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
    Last edit by lindarn on Mar 29, '06
  4. by   rfmages
    Quote from soliant12
    Nurses follow and implement physician orders and may have some standing orders to follow but the jobs are not even remotely close and nurses do not diagnose so I do not agree nurses are doing 80% of what doctors used to do.
    I can only laugh about this comment, first off I dont care, if the person working with me is an ADN, BSN, MSN or for that fact a professor that taught me in school. YEs some know more then others and some use it better then others. But a nurse is a nurse, we are all a special breed and so this beacuse we love it or loved it at one time. I have heard banter about this law since I origianlly started nursing school back in 93 and 20 some years later and its still the same. IF it changes it shanges, we will all just have to deal with it and do what we have to. Now as far as the statement I quoted above, if you dont think that nurses are doing 80% of what MD's used to do, you ahvent been exposed to alot of different nursing opportunities. I wont say waht I do or dont do at work, but I can say that MD's encourage the nurses in our unit to be autonomous and take the bull by the horns. They know us and we know them and we watch out for each other. We do more now then ever before. Do we diagnosis, not on paper but if I call an MD or a PA for something, I usually tell them what I think it is and bam, I write an order for what I already gave. Enough said.
  5. by   joejoe101
    This is not the best idea NYS has ever came up with, & it is not the first time they have brought this issue up. The problem is that the nursing shortage isn't expected to get any better, in fact the average age of nurse's in the US is like 46. Many people enjoy the fact that they can become an RN in 2-3 years, while they are raising a family or whatever the circumstance. Becoming an RN is a difficult process in a 2 year program, and the nurses aren't any less of quality than that of a 4 year program. Many of the classes offered during the 4yr program aren't nursing related. I think that nurse's should be encouraged to continue their education, but not required. Having a A.A.S. isn't any less PROFESSIONAL than having a Bachelor's degree.
  6. by   kathi yudin
    Quote from SMK1
    this is very true! I don't understand why they want to make the existing RN's go back for the BSN if you want to mandate that for the future fine ( i personally think this could be a very good idea in a lot of ways) but everybody already in practice or enrolled in nursing school should not be affected. They should just be "grandfathered" in. And the existing ADN and diploma programs should be offered partnership programs with the Universities and Online BSN programs for telecourses and distance learning options so that getting a BSN is accesible to everyone, otherwise this plan just won't work.
    I trained in ny 30 yrs ago at a aas program.. 4 yrs ago i completed my bsn and am currently enrolled in an msn program for my np.. my bsn has not made me a better nurse.. it is the clinical time that makes the nurse.. the book work is great but.. applying what you learn.. having the ability and knowledge to use critical thinking skills.. that is what makes the nurse.. it doesnt' matter if you have an rn from a diploma program.. an rn from an aa program or a bsn.. it is how you apply your knowledge.. i am not against bsn trained nurses.. however.. i do believe that those with an rn prior to when and if it becomes a law.. should be grandfathered in.. ny was talking of doing this 30 yrs ago when i was a nursing student.. and those who already had a degree w/ i believe a set # of yrs would be grandfathered in.. that never came to fruition.. i don't know in this day and age w/ the nursing shortage as bad as it is.. that that will happen yet again.. it would be a devastating mistake if it does!!!.. good nurses will be lost!!..
  7. by   shelbells
    Does anyone happen to know where I can find information regarding North Dakota's decision to reverse their BSN requirement? I am leading a class discussion in a few weeks on the topic of nursing education and I think it might be an interesting topic to mention. Any links to web sites or articles would be greatly appreciated!
  8. by   zoeyzoe
    Quote from soliant12
    Sorry it wasn't 6 months it was 7.5 months June-January from Regents/Excelsior College, and yes it was an ASN degree.
    Well, if you went to excelsior that's another story, it is possible to get your ADN in 7.5 months but that just your core nursing classes, and that also means that you were already something else like an lpn. So you did already go to school for at least 18 months prior to your entering excelsior. So I agree with the others, I don't know anyone who got their ADN who needed pre-recs in all, in just 2 years.
  9. by   michellebsn
    Again and again this go round with rn versus bsn. They both take the same tests. Dividing us up is not the way to stay unified and focused on patient care as well as safety. We are all RN's.WE need to unite and stay together!
  10. by   Teachchildren123
    Rfmages, I truly admire your honesty and agree with you 100%.
    It does not make a bit of a difference, BSN, MSN or suprisingly enough: new grad. I work with a new grad who did the ECHO program and she is absolutly outstanding! It's in her blood my little "shrimp".
    I also worked with seasoned nurses with degrees long like my arm, who did not have a micron of compassion, were rude with pts and family and did not use any critical thinking whatsoerver. Made me ashame of even breathing the same air! I just do not understand how they got so many diplomas-certificates and be so narrow-minded!I suspected once (or twice) that a MD or a senator... got his license in a Cracker Jack box!!!! Could it be!!! Well, even in the best family!:spin:
    Thankfully, most of the nurses I work with are deep and kind souls and will try everything to make their pt's stay safe and healing. I could go on and on. This really make a difference in the workplace. Yes, we are rather autonomous on the unit and the MD's trusts our judgement, that's very sain and gratificating.
    As for the BSN to be a requirement: "My motto is that the best investment is in education" but at this time this would be unrealistic, totally absurd. Knowing how short-staffed we are every work day, knowing that this, among other elements affects negatively the quality of care. Obviously, thoses law-makers have not been hospitalised lately (with no VIP care please... another of my pete-peeve). Obviously, I do not have a BSN! Enough said.[/QUOTE]
    Last edit by Teachchildren123 on Mar 29, '06
  11. by   Teachchildren123
    Although, if someone would give me a full time salary and pay me education, I would say "YYYYYEEEEEEAH! Let me loose! But I am the bread winner.
    Last edit by Teachchildren123 on Mar 29, '06
  12. by   michellebsn
    Quote from rfmages
    I can only laugh about this comment, first off I dont care, if the person working with me is an ADN, BSN, MSN or for that fact a professor that taught me in school. YEs some know more then others and some use it better then others. But a nurse is a nurse, we are all a special breed and so this beacuse we love it or loved it at one time. I have heard banter about this law since I origianlly started nursing school back in 93 and 20 some years later and its still the same. IF it changes it shanges, we will all just have to deal with it and do what we have to. Now as far as the statement I quoted above, if you dont think that nurses are doing 80% of what MD's used to do, you ahvent been exposed to alot of different nursing opportunities. I wont say waht I do or dont do at work, but I can say that MD's encourage the nurses in our unit to be autonomous and take the bull by the horns. They know us and we know them and we watch out for each other. We do more now then ever before. Do we diagnosis, not on paper but if I call an MD or a PA for something, I usually tell them what I think it is and bam, I write an order for what I already gave. Enough said.
    Thank you
    ! I got a lot of flak from a few people for saying the 80% thing.It was actually told to me my a mentor of mine, a doc who had worked with Debakey, Colley et al, on the first human and artificial heart transplants. He also said any one good nurse was betterr than two doctors( LOVE this GUY! ) It wasn't meant to denigrate MDs it was meant to emphasize ( having worked ER and Critical care) how much we do they used to.They are doing other things and don't often spend the time we do with pts. or even do procedures like they used too.They have become our area of responsibilty. I am attending a program (rn-bsn) in which the BSN's do get more clinical time in ares like gerontology, critical care and Ob-gyn. Also the theory is important. I looking at the whole persons body, mind and spirit. Anway there is nothing wrong with knowing the whys as well as how. A bit more education is a good thing. We all have life-long CME credits to keep up on1 :wink2:
  13. by   subee
    Quote from michellebsn
    Thank you
    ! I got a lot of flak from a few people for saying the 80% thing.It was actually told to me my a mentor of mine, a doc who had worked with Debakey, Colley et al, on the first human and artificial heart transplants. He also said any one good nurse was betterr than two doctors( LOVE this GUY! ) It wasn't meant to denigrate MDs it was meant to emphasize ( having worked ER and Critical care) how much we do they used to.They are doing other things and don't often spend the time we do with pts. or even do procedures like they used too.They have become our area of responsibilty. I am attending a program (rn-bsn) in which the BSN's do get more clinical time in ares like gerontology, critical care and Ob-gyn. Also the theory is important. I looking at the whole persons body, mind and spirit. Anway there is nothing wrong with knowing the whys as well as how. A bit more education is a good thing. We all have life-long CME credits to keep up on1 :wink2:
    It depresses me to read some of the comments in this board from people are so anti-education when it comes to a nursing degree. Would you want to be cared for my a MD or lawyer who thought that "booklearning" was a waste of time when it had nothing to do with what they do at work? One doesn't learn to go to college to "do" stuff - you go to become a discriminating thinker. Nursing will always be cheap labor as long as we act like it. However, it would make more sense to keep the ADN programs up and running because too many people have no alternative. However, its not unfair to require the BS in 10 years. Most of the course work can be done on line. NY is grandfathering all present non-BSN RN's. They would be unaffected. We require more degrees from a piano teacher than we do for a nurse caring for our children.

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