Nursing is Not a Science - Page 2

As someone commented upthread there can be great variation in how science courses are taught for nursing majors versus say pre-med or biology. That difference in course content can influence how or if such credits transfer.

Remember hearing years ago about a girl desparate to enter a local NYC nursing program. She had finished most of her pre-reqs but was missing A&P, but never the less managed to gain a acceptance into a school provided she completed the missing classes by the fall. After not having any luck finding openings in any local colleges she did find A&P classes offered at some school out west somewhere. Turned out the A&P was pre-med (complete with cadavers) not the usual nursing orientated classes most of us are used to. Undaunted classes were taken, passed.


Hunter College here in NYC for instance has all health science majors (nursing, pre-med, etc..) take the same organic chem and possibly other science classes. Thus rather than the usual "chem for weenies" many nursing students take this is a full on chemistry class which IIRC requires a 3.0 passing grade inorder to be considered for entry into the nursing program.

All this brings into question the larger debate as to just how much and which sciences nurses need to know. Physics with or without alculus for instance are part of all pre-med requirements, yet nursing programs rarely ever don't,well at least perhaps not for undergrad anyway. Do nurses really need the understanding of organic chemistry to the level of a physican or pharmacist?

Probably not for the most day-to-day nursing duties, but I think it might do nursing profession the world of good. Knowledge in biochemistry is invaluable to learn physiology/pathophysiology and pharmacology. Unfortunately, getting to biochem requires org chem, which is notoriously difficult and requires learning a bunch of reactions that have nothing to do with biological systems. Still, it all builds up to a deeper understanding of things later on.

I feel like the lack of a rigorous science requirement for nursing program does disservice to students who crave an education that is on par with medical or pharmacy programs AND want to contribute to nursing profession. But I can understand how people might view such education unnecessary for nursing. I suppose there's the APN route for those who want more in-depth education.

Personally, I think if you are being granted a BS degree, you should have taken the "full on" variety of the sciences. One reason i prefer a PA to a NP...I looked into applying to a PA course and they were going to blow me off till I explained that my sciences WERE NOT pre nursing courses....

How is A&P taught differently for nursing and pre-professional majors? I didn't know there was a distinction.

I took a 5 unit Human Anatomy class that used cadavers. A friend of mine in the class was a pre-med student.

Once in med school A&P are usually if not always IIRC taught as two separate classes, not combined as they are nursing programs.

Though many places do offer an A&P class for pre-med students there is considerable debate as to their worth. Some feel it will give them an edge when taking the MCAT, others feel it is a waste of time since as med students they will have to take the aforementioned (and highly detailed) A&P classes anyway.

As for the other sciences such as general and organic chem there are all sorts of ways not to make either too taxing on the little ladies (student nurses). *LOL*

You can teach the class so it covers just what is deemed necessary for a nurse to know. Or, help things along by giving formulas and so forth with the exams including *ahem* coaching on how to plug things in, and so it goes.

Mind you on paper the general and organic chemistry classes must resemble standard college level work or there can be a hard time transferring credits.

I think the OP may be reading too much into the weighting of undergrad classes for the med school application. I just polled 8 residents I know (2 are DOs, 6 are MDs) ... their undergrad majors range from electrical engineering to French translation. Yes, really.

It is a common misconception that all premed students have undergradute degrees in the sciences or math. This simply isn't true. Indeed some med schools are now actively looking for potential students from a wide range of life experiences/undergrad degrees to better cope with how medicine will be practiced in the new very multi-cultural world that is USA is fast becoming.

MIT has very good "pre-med" programs that boasts a decent enough acceptance rate for it's grads into Ivy or other top medical schools.

What probably does matter is that one have certain sciences covered, but that isn't the be and end all.

People could also argue that nurses, physicians, and PA's should all have a strong background in the social sciences and humanities -- because we deal with PEOPLE within the context of their lives. To work with people, we need to understand them ... their cultures, their communities, their psychology, etc. We also need a strong, deep foundation in the humanities such as philosophy to deal with the many ethical issues we will face.

We could just as easily criticize medical and PA education for being in the social sciences and humanities -- and in fact, many people criticize them for that weakness and are encouraging a more balance education for these professions.

I believe that balance is what is best -- for all of us -- though there will always be some people with a strong preference for one domain or another. Unfortunately, some of those people like to "feel superior" and put down those who tend to lean in the other direction.