Frustrated in BSN program - page 5
So I am tired of getting treated like an ignorant, useless nurse because I only have an ADN and denied employment everywhere because I'm not a BSN. I get into a BSN program and start taking EXPENSIVE... Read More
0Quote from subeeAgain, this is what they require to make up for the difference between an ASN and BSN degree, with the remaining electives that are part of any bachelor's degree being separate.I don' t even come close to believing a school would substitute 60 credits for a four page essay.
0Nov 24, '12 by JZ_RNI took A+P 2, And I took pathophysiology. None of my BSN classes teach anything that I already haven't learned or that isn't related to management and leadership. I do like my job but I'd prefer a hospital job, better pay there and it was my original goal. The fact that you are all being so awful to each other and me makes me sad for us all.
I have 6 "nursing" classes with titles like "gerontologic nursing care" (I worked for a year in a nursing home and I learned that material already in my ADN program with "nursing care of the older adult") and "family nursing" (well I took "nursing care of the adult", pediatrics, mother/baby nursing, etc., so why do I need this AGAIN?) classes and 6 other non-nursing classes (nutrition, which was covered in every class I took and statistics, which I will literally never use as a nurse and, and then some humanities.. I took 2 years of French and one of Spanish, and Human growth.. which I already covered in my ADN, then there's junior level writing classes, which don't really make me a better nurse, either, since I took 2 years of composition already) before I get my BSN. None of them have helped me in my work. I am miserable in school but I want a hospital job. My job now is okay but I studied to be a nurse to work in the hospital. Now I'm shut out because I chose to go to an affordable school versus an expensive one. I took the same test as the BSN nurses and can perform all the same skills. It seems like a huge scam to me. Not that I don't respect the BSN nurses, I do want to have my bachelor's degree, but it's expensive and seems to be not very useful. I guess I will take the winter semester off and then go back and finish. I need a break for holidays because they don't take off for Christmas and I will be going out of town and won't be able to do coursework. I really feel like I'm not learning anything in my BSN courses, though.Last edit by JZ_RN on Nov 24, '12 : Reason: typo
0Quote from Ntheboat2Separating out pathophysiology is an antiquated way of designing Nursing curriculum, now it's typically integrated into Nursing practice classes. The top ranked Nursing program in the country doesn't have a separate pathophysiology class, does that mean their students are lacking in knowledge of pathophysiology?Oh...my...G.E.D! (joke)
I think that ADN graduates learn what their program offers and requires. Since most programs do NOT offer nor require a class devoted to pathophysiology, I think ANYONE who hasn't taken a class on pathophysiology can learn something from it. I also think a master chef can learn something by taking a cooking class.
1Quote from Ntheboat2These are a base requirement for any bachelor's degree and thus are required. In terms of their Nursing education however, UW does not see ASN graduates as being significantly lacking, if they did what they require to make up the difference would be more substantialOh...my...G.E.D! (joke)
You said: "I really don't think that "boatload" of extra college credits which mainly involved reading Homer and sailing made any measurable difference in my Nursing skills. If UW saw any significant difference in my Nursing education and that of a ADN then they'd probably want to see those requirements fulfilled, but as it turns out, they don't."
So, yes, the "electives" in a social work degree and BSN can be the same, but those electives that you say "UW doesn't want to see fulfilled" ARE required to apply to the MSN program! The ONLY difference between a person with an ADN and a person with an ADN and a bachelor's in social work are those "45 useless credits," so how can you say they don't care about those?
That's not even a matter of opinion. It's just a simple fact.
Quote from Ntheboat2My creepy obsession is that we have become a profession divided, and not even for decent reason. We should absolutely identify areas for improvement and act on those, but too often our views of ASN programs are based on astounding ignorance.What's with this creepy obsession? Did someone force you to get a BSN?
0Nov 24, '12 by Ntheboat2Quote from Ntheboat2Muno, do you actually READ what is said, or are you really that intent on saying the same things over and over?"Clinical applications of anatomy and physiology" sure, it's not called "pathophysiology," but there is a significant period of time dedicated to what's basically the same thing.
I'm not really believing what you said in your other thread about "unnecessarily stoking the adn vs bsn debate" because it's quite obvious that's exactly what you intended to do and you're obsessed with the topic.
You say that the "top ranked program in the country" will accept a "4 page homework assignment" and considers it the same as a BSN, but forget to mention that they also REQUIRE a bachelor's degree.
Then, you say the "top ranked program in the country" doesn't have a pathophysiology class, but fail to mention that they have a class called "Clinical applications of anatomy and physiology" which IS pathophysiology!
Again, did someone force you to get a BSN?
Again, did you ever give any advice to the OP?
1Nov 24, '12 by rosemrnLook into University of texas at Arlington's Rn to BSN program online or UTA. Their program is much less expensive. I am in my second class and seems pretty good. Just like any other program papers and discussion board, BUT it is less expensive. Just a thought. I was determined that I would not pursue a BSN since I already have a previous Bachelors in Business, but I don't want to get shut out of jobs seeing as though I need to work a good many more years. Hang in there!
0Nov 24, '12 by MotherRNQuote from BostonTerrierLoverRNWow, while I am sure the Job Climate and Salary is different here in the Southeastern US, you would be hard pressed to find a hospital unit with more than one BSN/MSN. Of my first 5 years, I spent the majority of my time as Charge Nurse, then when I obtained my BSN two years later, My boss still was an ADN.
Now that I have my MSN FNP, I still work in Acute Care (when pulled from ED working contract as a Staff Nurse) to units where the Unit Manager, Charge Nurse, and most colleagues are ADN-RNs or LPN-LVNs. It's just a non-issue here. The BSN is actually thought of as a bridge to MSN as the pay, as you mentioned, is rarely affected(when it is usually $0.50/hr+).
I can speak for travel experience in NC, SC, GA, FL, TN, TX, AL, LA, KY, MS, OK, VA, and D.C.
When I worked NY, FL, and CA I never got pulled to floor, but there were ample ADNs in Triage, Trauma, ED, and Fast Tracks. Management here did usually have advanced degrees, and found it funny I "staff nursed" with mine- as they obtained their's to enter management and administrative positions.
Living in the Southeast, and NOT getting those job interviews at the hospital. They ARE requesting BSN's, not ADN's 'round these parts!
0Quote from subee*** Nobody made that claim. The claim was that the paper could be substituted for a BSN and that is true as we have seen here. Substuting 60 credits is just something you made up yet you say it as if you are talking about something said previously in the discussion.I don' t even come close to believing a school would substitute 60 credits for a four page essay.
0Quote from Ntheboat2;704448*** It's irrelevent. We are being told by the advocates of BSN only that a BSN should be the entry to RN practice. ADN + bachelors in another field apperently will not suffice, it's the BSN that is all important we are told. Either the school requires a BSN for admission to it's MSN program or it doesn't. In the case UW doesn't, evidence that, despite what we have been hearing, maybe thye BSN isn't as important as we are being told.
[LIST[*][*]an associate degree or diploma from an accredited RN program, and a baccalaureate degree in a non-nursing field[/LIST]The fact that you must have a baccalaureate degree in another field is a tiny little detail you didn't mention.
3Nov 24, '12 by Susie2310Quote from JZ_RNI had many of the same feelings as you when I bridged from my RN program into a BSN program approximately 17 years ago. The cost; the commute; the demands on my family; the jumping through hoops; the instructors who played games. But I believed then, and now many years later I still believe, that a BSN would be increasingly necessary for a nursing career, and especially for graduate school, and I wanted all options open to me. I was also fresh from my RN training and years of college, so continuing to study at college level was not hard. I resented the busywork, but there were some courses that were definitely very valuable, and continue to be for me: College statistics (the most interesting and useful course I took in my entire college education) - once you have taken statistics it is a lot harder for people to fool you or lie to you with talk of statistics and correlations; public health; community health (which I did at a nurse managed facility); the preceptorship in a completely new specialty; even writing a research paper. There were some instructors who were very supportive and who I really learned a lot from i.e. the advanced health assessment class, and I remember them with appreciation today. Possibly I gained more doing the BSN directly after my ADN program, and maybe if I had years of experience working as an RN before I bridged to the BSN program I would have found it less useful. I believed that I should make the most of the opportunity to get my BSN as soon as I could, and not put it off, and I am glad I did it that way as I would hate to be trying to go back for it now. Life moves on quickly and shortly after completing it major changes happened in my life, where trying to fit college in would not have been an option.So I am tired of getting treated like an ignorant, useless nurse because I only have an ADN and denied employment everywhere because I'm not a BSN. I get into a BSN program and start taking EXPENSIVE classes, on my own dime, and spending all my free time on these classes. I haven't learned one single thing in the program besides how to do citations for a paper which helps me 0% in my job. I won't get a raise when I have a BSN either. So what is the point? I want to stop taking these classes after this course, but I want a bachelor's if only for my own pride. However, it is costing me so much money (thousands, every class has hundreds in books and fees and then they want you to buy case studies and other crazy things weekly) and all of my free time. I am so stressed doing these busywork assignments (and that's all they are, they don't teach me anything I don't already know and almost none of it is applicable in the real world because there's no time for me to evaluate patient's emotional roadblocks to learning when I barely have time to take their vitals)and I am so tired that at work daily.. and have no time with friends or family. Any advice? Sorry for the rambling but I am too tired to edit.
I would suggest persevering with the BSN if at all possible, before higher tuition costs and family/life demands make it more difficult to consider. At the very least you will have more opportunities and more job security as a nurse, and will have opened the door to graduate education.Last edit by Susie2310 on Nov 24, '12
3Quote from Ntheboat2*** I haven't observed anyone telling another person their degree is useless or fluff. I have only seen people say that about their own degrees. My degree is useless and was absolutly full of fluff and I belive it was a waste of time (unless I get fired, then I suppose it might come in handy). Origionaly I got the degree to advance of the clinical ladder. Just before I recieved the degree I was advanced to the next level, the level that requires a BSN with an education waiver. The people who promoted me had no idea I was in a BSN program. I am not saying that about YOUR degree. If your BSN was your entry to RN practice then it seems pretty darn useful to me.I'm not sure why it's acceptable (although really it's only acceptable on this forum) to tell people that their bachelor's degrees are "useless, fluff, a waste of time, etc," but it's just APPALLING ...if...after twisting words, putting them under a microscope, and taking them out of context....someone believes that people with associate's degrees were somehow insulted.
Lets remeber it's not the ADN RNs attempting to do away with the BSN RN. It's the BSN prepared attempting to do away with the ADN RN. Understandable they would feel a little defensive.
0Nov 24, '12 by tokmom, BSNQuote from MunoRNI have a friend and co worker doing the RN-BSN at the U of W and she is thinking it's a total waste of time. She said she isn't learning anything that she didn't learn in her ADN program. However, being a new grad means she has years of working ahead of her. She is wise to get the BSN now versus later.She's looking to follow her BF to the University of Washington, the top ranked Nursing school for the past 27 years.
It did surprise me to hear how 'easy' the coursework is. I expected a challenging program from the U of W.
2Nov 24, '12 by hiddencatRNQuote from woohAnd heaven forbid you got good grades too, because we all know no one is more clueless with the patients than a BSN student with a high GPA!Not to mention everyone who got a BSN was LOST when they got onto the floor.
To the OP- have you looked in to other programs? I know they vary in cost as well as general format. It seems like if you want to work in a hospital without relocating, you need the BSN, but maybe there's a more cost effective way to do it? The push to buy extra study materials is a bit of a red flag to me- are you going to a for-profit school?