Do I REALLY need a BSN?

amystudentRN · Sep 17, 2012

I am a ASN, now enrolled in a BSN program, and my local hospital (magnet hospital) will only hire BSN nurses. I think its a good idea to have the BSN just to know I have better opportunities in my career.

chuckster, ADN, BSN, RN, EMT-B · Sep 17, 2012

You can possibly, maybe, perhaps if you live in the right geographic area, get by with your ADN. The unfortunate reality is that nursing is now moving swiftly toward the BSN as the minimun entry-level nursing credential, the stated and long-coveted goal of the ANA. Other events, such as the movement by hospitals to acquire Magnet status, have put even more pressure on nurses to acquire BSN's. While it is true that there are any number of postings here on AN from folks who got good jobs quickly after graduating with Associates degrees, I think that they represent a declining minority.

In my part of the world, the local community college has run a very well respected and highly competitive nursing program for over 40 years. As recently as five years ago, local hospitals actively sought grads from the program and many offered scholarships in return for pledges to work for the hospital upon graduation. Something on the order of 90% of this CC's grads went to work as hospital floor nurses with fewer than 10% going to LTC. That has all changed. I'm told that nearly 50% of the 2011 graduating class is not employed in nursing and of the employed balance, the overwhelming majority are working in nursing homes. This is probably not surprising: It is very rare to see a posting for a nursing position at any of the area hospitals (most are either magnets or seeking magnet status) that does not state "BSN required."

So do you need a BSN? The answer is possibly not, but without a BSN these days, you are swimming upstream in nursing.

LisalaRN99, BSN, RN · Sep 17, 2012

Hi. I just graduate with my ADN as a second career. Before that, I was full time mom and before that I was an attorney (yeah, weird, I know). So, I'm hearing here and there that if I want even a chance at a hospital residency position (I want to be in the ICU one day), I need a BSN. But I keep thinking, "really? I already have a B.A. and a J.D.!" My original plan was to work, gain experience, and then go for a masters in a clinical specialty. But now, I'm now sure. I just can't believe that all my other experience and education doesn't count, especially when the BSN program really doesn't have any clinical component -- it's just more research and writing. I'm working in a really well run SNF, so I'm not really unhappy, but my dream has been to be in the ICU. I'll do what it takes but I'd like to know what other people have heard before I jump back into school. Thanks!

Hi Myschuler,

I was in a similar way when I went to nursing school for my ADN. Back then all the area BSN programs had long waiting lists. I rationalized that I already had a BS and an MS in other subjects (counseling), so I would get the ADN and all would be well. Well it isn't. As I found out, unless your BS and MS is in Nursing, it really doesn't count toward any advancements in nursing. Yes, it may help, having all that additional knowledge, but the true Professional nursing degree starts with the BSN. Having a JD, you could become a Legal Nurse Consultant someday if not sooner. But, you have to have your BSN first. And you can't get an MSN without the BSN. Having already attained a BS or BA in another subject before law school, a lot if not all your credits will transfer in for the prerequisites to the BSN. You will have to take the core BSN classess. Just do it! I know the debate about the BSN requirement has been raging for decades, but hospitals are now becoming a little more picky and "preferring" the BSN. I want my MSN as well. I'm finishing my BSN in March 2013. Having had my BS and also the MS has helped me with my writing and research. You will do very well I'm sure. Just do it!

chuckster, ADN, BSN, RN, EMT-B · Sep 17, 2012

. . . But, you have to have your BSN first. And you can't get an MSN without the BSN. Having already attained a BS or BA in another subject before law school, a lot if not all your credits will transfer in for the prerequisites to the BSN. You will have to take the core BSN classess. Just do it! I know the debate about the BSN requirement has been raging for decades, but hospitals are now becoming a little more picky and "preferring" the BSN. I want my MSN as well. I'm finishing my BSN in March 2013. Having had my BS and also the MS has helped me with my writing and research. You will do very well I'm sure. Just do it!

Actually, you can get your MSN without having a BSN. There are quite a few MSN programs for second degree RN's out there - there are several in my area alone. While a few may grant the BSN as part of their program, most have the RN progress directly to the MSN after taking a number of "bridge" classes, usually four. The drawback to these programs is that you can wind up being a new grad MSN without any nursing experience - something not looked at particularly favorably by prospective employers. The other drawback is cost: Tuition for those bridge classes will be at the graduate rate, which could be well over a thousand dollars per credit. So you could wind up shelling out $15 to $20k for 16 credits of work that won't count toward anything except your chosen school's MSN program requirement. You could actually save money by going through an on-line RN-BSN program at a school like UT-Arlington, Ohio U, Slippery Rock, SUNY-Delphi or another of the many state-supported schools for which program tuition is $10k or under. Get the BSN this way and then enroll in an MSN without having to take those bridge classes.

The OP's post was about the need for the BSN however. I agree wholeheartedly about the growing need - actually now more like a requirement - for nurses to have BSN's. Speaking as an ADN with several other degrees, I frankly think that the whole "BSN required" thing is silly but it is a growing trend that is ignored at one's own peril.

monkeybug · Sep 17, 2012

With an RN and a JD- why would you want bedside nursing?! Why not just go into representing nurses in malpractice cases and state board investigations- the pay has to be better than clincal nursing along with the perks- actually being appreciated for your knowledge and respected for it. The all around working conditions have to be a whole lot better than any hospital could offer- no matter what the unit. The shine wears off real fast.
My personal experience- I wanted to be an ICU nurse soon after graduation when I was placed on a stepdown/telemetry unit as a new nurse. i had a baby, stayed home for 4 years and then went to med/surg for 18 years and finally went to what I thought was my ultimate dream job- "ICU finally after 18 years", only to find out, I hated it, every minute of it- couldn't wait to get out of it after 6 months. I t was the bookwork I was enamored with- the actual bedside work was horrendous and when you are short staffed in ICU you are really, really screwed. I about had an MI every night I went home. In the hospital being short staffed on any unit you are really screwed. 3 critical care patients- one active GI bleed needing blood from the ED, one fresh out of the OR AAA on a vent w/ an art line and one patient in septic shock also on a vent with gtts- no thanks.
Why not try for a postion in a law practice? consultation work- but bedside and all it's political administrative bull, with a patient's life in the balance. Please don't waste your law degree.

I'm also a JD/RN, and the job market for lawyers is even worse than the market for nurses. It's not easy to find these nurse consulting positions I'm always hearing about, but have never seen. I love doing hands on nursing, and I hated being a lawyer. And with the state of the job market for lawyers, I actually make more money as a nurse than some of my legal classmates do in their solo practices.

monkeybug · Sep 17, 2012

Apparently it's not as weird as you think. Former attorney, current ASN here. And I work med-surg. I don't feel like an ASN without any actual experience would impress any of these legal nurse consulting companies or whatever they are, even if we have a JD. Eventually I will go to something like that when my body can't handle bedside work anymore, but I surely don't feel like I should be holding myself out as an expert in anything yet. Except for how to be a "professional student" lol

BSN to JD then back to nurse, here. I figured out that law wasn't for me when I was a 2L, but I stuck it out and took the Bar (and passed in one try, go me) and went right back to the hospital. And though I really have tried, I havent' been able to make my JD work for me. I went through medical records for 1 attorney for 2 cases, and that was it. And I graduated 9 years ago from law school. Management at the hospital gives absolutely no weight to a JD, it didn't help me advance at all. I think it did impress my interviewers in my current job because it showed I wasn't a quitter.

BrandonLPN, LPN · Sep 17, 2012

In my part of the world, the local community college has run a very well respected and highly competitive nursing program for over 40 years. As recently as five years ago, local hospitals actively sought grads from the program and many offered scholarships in return for pledges to work for the hospital upon graduation. Something on the order of 90% of this CC's grads went to work as hospital floor nurses with fewer than 10% going to LTC. That has all changed. I'm told that nearly 50% of the 2011 graduating class is not employed in nursing and of the employed balance, the overwhelming majority are working in nursing homes. This is probably not surprising: It is very rare to see a posting for a nursing position at any of the area hospitals (most are either magnets or seeking magnet status) that does not state "BSN required."So do you need a BSN? The answer is possibly not, but without a BSN these days, you are swimming upstream in nursing.

I wonder if you're misinterpreting the data. The vast majority of nursing jobs in the future will NOT be in hospital settings. LTC, subacute and outpatient services are the future of this profession. Mark my words. Fewer new grad nurses are finding hospital jobs, ADN *and* BSN. I've seen many new grad BSNs come to my facility and have to rock the floor with a med cart, same as me. All these BSN programs seem to fill their students' heads with ideas that they are the superior breed of nurses who won't have to sully themselves with "LPN" or "ADN" tasks like passing pills or wiping butt. But, surprise-surprise, the ICUs and ERs aren't falling over themselves to hire a new grad with no experience just 'cause they got a BSN. New BSNs will have to take the LTC jobs because, in many areas, that's the only jobs there *are* for new grads.

Guest343211 · Sep 17, 2012

Your post is really an insult to thousands of nurses. Glorified LPNs? That is an insult to the LPNs as well. UNIONS are not needed. What is need is for all nurses to treat eachother with respect.I do not have a BSN and have always been well employed. Having extra letters after your name does not make you a better nurse.

Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think that is was the poster meant.

The reality is this. If you don't adapt, you die or stay in a stall pattern, usually. Sure there are exceptions.

No it has NOTHING much to do with your ability to be productive and efficacious as a RN. The politics and market right now are pretty much demanding this. Market demands are, well market demands. You either adapt, or you stall or don't move forward.

It's not about extra letters after your name. Many of us nurses don't use them, except for what is legally required by licensure--RN, for example. MD's and DO's don't use alphabet soup usually behind their names, with the exception of publication of research, etc.

OK, so this is a very poor analogy, but forgive me for using it CapeCod. Years ago one could drive a car without having to use a seatbelt. Now, it's the law. Sure you can still drive a car. If you get caught for some other violation but don't have your seatbelt on, you will be ticketed for that as well.

Driving isn't a right. It is considered to be a privilege.

So to is being a professional nurse. It's not a right. It's a privilge. Somewhere, as a profession, leaders had to draw a line about what is to be the baseline of professional nursing practice. It's simply about that--and how this has moved into market demands--and the politics associated with that. Right now, particularly in this market, it's a money/poliltics issue, for reasons I have stated in other threads.

There are only so many positions that health institutions and organizations are opening up right now. They will leave them unfilled before they take someone that isn't meeting their basic requirements (marketing demands at this point). Magnet status is a big part of this.

I am not saying I agree with their approach; but it is what it is.

Personally I would take someone with really strong clinical experience and sound nursing judgment over simply meeting the basic market demands regarding baseline education in a heart beat. But insitutions are willing to take the risk on the inexperienced BSNs, b/c they feel they can (lol) "mold" them to their ways, and b/c they can bring them in for less money than those with experience. They absolutely can pay them less--and still get the Magnet boon of hiring those with BSN. Another benefit of hiring newbies is that they can also often enough intimidate them by way of making them work all kinds of schedules, Yes there is self-scheduling; but that is open to be changed by management, schedulers, and other nurses with more "tenure" in the place or unit.

If you are fine with your degree, experience, and current employment, fine. But to imply that others needn't consider the importance of what the market is currently demanding is telling other nurses to just spit in the wind.

Try to get a management, research, or so many other roles in nursing without at least a BSN.

Like it or lump it. It is what it is.

Guest343211 · Sep 17, 2012

I am a ASN, now enrolled in a BSN program, and my local hospital (magnet hospital) will only hire BSN nurses. I think its a good idea to have the BSN just to know I have better opportunities in my career.

Because this is part of the Magnet requirement.

If you have Magnet or want status, this is pretty much expected.

Market driven.

Guest343211 · Sep 17, 2012

I wonder if you're misinterpreting the data. The vast majority of nursing jobs in the future will NOT be in hospital settings. LTC, subacute and outpatient services are the future of this profession. Mark my words. Fewer new grad nurses are finding hospital jobs, ADN *and* BSN. I've seen many new grad BSNs come to my facility and have to rock the floor with a med cart, same as me. All these BSN programs seem to fill their students' heads with ideas that they are the superior breed of nurses who won't have to sully themselves with "LPN" or "ADN" tasks like passing pills or wiping butt. But, surprise-surprise, the ICUs and ERs aren't falling over themselves to hire a new grad with no experience just 'cause they got a BSN. New BSNs will have to take the LTC jobs because, in many areas, that's the only jobs there *are* for new grads.

Many hospitals have internships for new BSNs. But because the hiring is so tight right now, they do a couple things to cull down the list.

First, they make sure they don't have anymore than 6 mo.s of clinical experience.

Second, they make sure they choose only those with the highest GPAs.

Third, they limit the cycles for running these BSN internships.

From their end, it's a smart way of getting what they want while meeting marketing requirements and budgetary demands.

It's about money and politics. That IS the reality.

Guest343211 · Sep 17, 2012

I wonder if you're misinterpreting the data. The vast majority of nursing jobs in the future will NOT be in hospital settings. LTC, subacute and outpatient services are the future of this profession. Mark my words. Fewer new grad nurses are finding hospital jobs, ADN *and* BSN. I've seen many new grad BSNs come to my facility and have to rock the floor with a med cart, same as me. All these BSN programs seem to fill their students' heads with ideas that they are the superior breed of nurses who won't have to sully themselves with "LPN" or "ADN" tasks like passing pills or wiping butt. But, surprise-surprise, the ICUs and ERs aren't falling over themselves to hire a new grad with no experience just 'cause they got a BSN. New BSNs will have to take the LTC jobs because, in many areas, that's the only jobs there *are* for new grads.

Many hospitals have internships for new BSNs. But because the hiring is so tight right now, they do a few things to cull down the list.

First, they make sure the candidates don't have anymore than 6 mo.s of clinical experience.

Second, they make sure they choose only those with the highest GPAs.

Third, they limit the cycles for running these BSN internships.

From their end, it's a smart way of getting what they want while meeting marketing requirements and budgetary demands.

It's about money and politics. That IS the reality.

tokmom, BSN, RN · Sep 17, 2012

First of all, I'm really tired of seeing the words 'only' and 'just' in front of a ADN. I even see ADN nurses using it. Until we can respect ourselves, we can't expect others to do so.

To the OP: It depends on where you live. I work primarly with ADN's. We just hired 2 ADN's. I have to disagree that ADN's don't get the 'good' jobs. I work for a very good organization that hires ADN's as much as BSn's.