BSN to practice ethical dilemma - where do you stand?

Students ADN/BSN

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TangoLima

225 Posts

I too feel that nurses should have a BSN to practice. My main reasoning is for furthering nursing as a profession. Nurses are every bit as capable as physicians or any other healthcare worker, yet we are not viewed as a serious profession! If PT's require an MSN to practice, why do we require so much less of our nurses? The general public has no idea what nurses do or are capable of.

Sure, BSN students may get a few less clinical hours during our degree program, but our clinical skills will improve quickly when we start practicing. Plus, BSNs have leadership, research, and communication skills that are an added bonus on the floor.

Moreover, ADNs and BSNs need to stop resenting each other. ADNs are defensive that they are "only" ADNs (I don't mean for that to sound bad, just trying to make a point) and BSNs are defensive that we are BSNs, like we are supposed to feel bad that we went the BSN route. Let's start thinking about what's best for the furtherance of our profession and for the care of our patients.

manofcare

117 Posts

So, what you are saying when you state that the public has no idea what nurses do, so they should at least have a BSN to practice? And, since you have less clinical experience during you can quickly become better once you have worked as a nurse. Let's face something about education. The real world and school are two different things, regardless of the degree path. On the job training is required for any job, including nursing. As far as the arguement that BSN would make people recognise that nurses are really all that and a bag of potato chips, I disagree. The number one problem with the image of nurses is the image that nursing has self-promoted for years. We are just here to care. We do only because we feel the need to care. If nurses are concerned about making a living we scorn them, because they should just be here to care. I had a nusing administrator publically attempt to ridicule me during a recruiting dinner by telling me that they only wanted nurses that were there to care for pts, and it was wrong for me to ask about wages and benefits. Sorry, nursing will feed my family and pay my bills. if you want to be respected as a professional, change this image, don't be so concerned about the amount of time you spend in scholl.

Specializes in L&D.

I absolutely think nurses should need a BSN. I would love to see that become the entry-level degree. I think it would hugely increase the respect nurses command among medical peers and non-medical people alike, and I think that associates degree nurses have to do pretty much the same amount of work and spend the same amount of time in school that BSN nurses do ... so why the heck don't they get the bachelors for that effort? I deserve one for the work I've put in through my BSN program, and my two dear friends who are in ADN programs and working their rear ends off just as much as I did, deserve a BSN too. The issue for me is not that BSN is "better" but that in general, a bachelors is seen as superior to an associates and every nursing student I've ever met works too darn hard to "settle" for an associates (to clarify, I don't consider an ADN settling at all. but in general I think associates degrees are not seen as taking the same amount of work as a bachelors, which is unfair in a field like nursing). We should all be getting the same, equally respected, degree.

jjjoy, LPN

2,801 Posts

I think that associates degree nurses have to do pretty much the same amount of work and spend the same amount of time in school that BSN nurses do ... so why the heck don't they get the bachelors for that effort?

Well put!

vashtee, RN

1,065 Posts

Specializes in DOU.

I agree with those who have said the ADN programs take just about the same length of time and most of the same education as a BSN.

chaxanmom

831 Posts

This debate is decades old and unresolved still. I would love any perspectives voiced as to why you are FOR or AGAINST having a BSN required in order to enter practice as an RN.

For the record I am against it.... feeling that we should be granted a grace period of ten years to acquire a BSN if we want to with some sort of reasonable incentive to do so. The wage increase is not enough to make the cost of schooling make sense for at least 10-15 years and we are in a country where grants and scholarships are hard work too. The lag time of implementing this would worsen the nursing shortages too and some of the best nurses I know are not highly "degreed"...

What are your feelings on this?

Ideally BSN would be a starting point for nursing. I think that would help take it from being seen as a blue collar service job to a professional job. The problem is that we are in a shortage now and can't get enough RNs to begin with so it would be a huge mistake to drastically limit the required education.

chaxanmom

831 Posts

I absolutely think nurses should need a BSN. I would love to see that become the entry-level degree. I think it would hugely increase the respect nurses command among medical peers and non-medical people alike, and I think that associates degree nurses have to do pretty much the same amount of work and spend the same amount of time in school that BSN nurses do ... so why the heck don't they get the bachelors for that effort? I deserve one for the work I've put in through my BSN program, and my two dear friends who are in ADN programs and working their rear ends off just as much as I did, deserve a BSN too. The issue for me is not that BSN is "better" but that in general, a bachelors is seen as superior to an associates and every nursing student I've ever met works too darn hard to "settle" for an associates (to clarify, I don't consider an ADN settling at all. but in general I think associates degrees are not seen as taking the same amount of work as a bachelors, which is unfair in a field like nursing). We should all be getting the same, equally respected, degree.

A 2-year degree has HALF the required credit hours of a 4-year degree. It is not the same amount of classes or the same amount of work as a bachelor's degree. Period. If it were then it would be called a...bachelor's degree. If you want and think you deserve a bachelor's degree then do a bachelor's program, not an associate program.

Alternator81

287 Posts

Specializes in 5th Semester - Graduation Dec '09!.
I agree with those who have said the ADN programs take just about the same length of time and most of the same education as a BSN.

No, they don't take the same amount of time.

Our nursing program has 61 credits by itself. This is not counting the prerequisite work, which is roughly around 70 credits. For any Bachelors degree you need at least 120 credits.

The ADN programs in my area have 36 credits in nursing curriculum, and average 70 credits for the whole degree.

chaxanmom

831 Posts

No, they don't take the same amount of time.

Our nursing program has 61 credits by itself. This is not counting the prerequisite work, which is roughly around 70 credits. For any Bachelors degree you need at least 120 credits.

The ADN programs in my area have 36 credits in nursing curriculum, and average 70 credits for the whole degree.

Same here. Mostly I've heard that doing a 2-year program full-time takes, um, 2 years and a 4-year program full-time takes, um, 4 years. 2 does not = 4 even if you want it to really reeeeeeeeally badly. Seems like fairly simple logic to me. :rolleyes:

futurecnm

558 Posts

Specializes in ED.
Depending on how you look at it, requiring a BSN for entry could actually INCREASE the number of nurses out there (as long as current RNs with any level of education were grandfathered) by increasing the prestige of the profession. I have a previous BS, and I would never have considered any career choice or further education that wouldn't have provided at least another bachelor's degree. I never considered nursing out of high school because I didn't really know what nurses did, and I didn't think of it as a profession. I obviously no longer feel that way, but I do think that requiring the BSN for entry would improve the prestige of the profession.

In no way do I mean to intimate that LPNs or RNs who came into the field via other routes are bad nurses or were poorly educated - I'm sure some of the CC programs out there are fantastic, and probably quite a few are better than mine as far as teaching actual nursing practice is concerned. I'm just saying that there are many people like me who feel pressured by family or by ourselves to be "professional," and well educated, and if that was the standard view of nursing in the community we might get more of the best and brightest into the field. Usually I don't comment on these types of threads, even though it's something I feel really strongly about. I wrote my term paper last semester on whether or not having more BSN nurses on the floor improved patient outcomes, and according to my research, it seems to - although my conclusion was that there still hasn't been enough research to recommend an overhaul of the entire educational system. Check out some of Linda Aiken's research for more info.

If you look at the cost of getting a BSN vs. AD, I believe it would decrease the number of RN's. Many, like myself, just can't afford the BSN education and the community college route was the only one that was practical. I'm a 2nd career nursing student (graduate in may) and have a bachelors degree in a prestigious field. I do not feel like I am any less prestigious because I'm getting a AD. I would have qualified and probably gotten into a accelerated post bac program but when I compare $9000 to $25,000 I have to take the route that makes practical sense. That big reason that they probably won't be requiring a bachelors degree any time soon is that it really would decrease the number of RN's and they can't afford to do that due to the upcoming/current RN shortage. It may happen someday but I don't forsee that coming anytime soon.

futurecnm

558 Posts

Specializes in ED.
ADNs are defensive that they are "only" ADNs (I don't mean for that to sound bad, just trying to make a point) .

That sounded really bad. I don't know one ADN grad who would ever say they are "only" a ADN. Bad choice of words and quotes in my opinion.

Specializes in L&D.
A 2-year degree has HALF the required credit hours of a 4-year degree. It is not the same amount of classes or the same amount of work as a bachelor's degree. Period. If it were then it would be called a...bachelor's degree. If you want and think you deserve a bachelor's degree then do a bachelor's program, not an associate program.

I am in a BSN program, but thanks for that helpful suggestion.

I spent 4 years getting my bachelors, and will graduate in May. One of my friends will have spent 5 years getting her ADN. Another is in her 3rd of 4 years, for her ADN. I looked at both programs when I decided which school to apply to - both the ADN and BSN programs in my area offer 2 years of clinicals and nursing-specific education. Maybe my area is unique, but that's the situation where I am and that is the situation upon which I base my opinion. 2 years = 2 years. I don't think the sociology class I took that they didn't have to, really makes me that much more prepared. But that's me.

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