BSN does not mean better... Sometimes education is overrated!

[lovegoddess1977]

okay so here's my point.

i have been reading several things on here about "i have my bsn so therefore i should make more money..blah, blah, blah" frankly i am sick of hearing it. let me give you a little background on me before i finish what i started.

i started out as an stna (cna) about 8 years ago. then i went and got my lpn. now i am getting my adn and i will graduate in may 2008. once i get my adn i am planning on going back and getting my bsn.

now let me say that i have met many bsn nurses who could not even figure out how to empty a foley drainage bag. they deemed that as "aide work". they also thought that they were better than us, and that we should bow down to them. also, i have met many bsn nurses who were so knowledgeable about everything and were excellent nurses. bedside manner was fantastic.

in general..i have met good nurses and bad nurses. that includes lpn's, bsn's and adn's. just because you have more education does not mean that you are better and should be paid more. honestly, bsn is a choice. it is a choice that i want to make. why would an employer pay a bsn all this money when they could pay an adn or a diploma rn less money for the same job? therefore...around the same pay for both. i just get sick and tired of people saying...i am better than you because i went to school for one year longer or two years or whatever. education is very important .....but its not everything when it comes to this debate. i met this master's degree nurse and she was sooooo stupid. i couldn't believe that she managed to get her degree. i knew this lpn who was smarter than any nurse i have ever met....rn's included. and vice versa.

my point: what makes a good nurse is personality, common sense and what you do with the knowledge that you possess.:balloons:

[llg, PhD, RN]

I agree and can understand the feellings of being ripped off. ADN programs have added so many "pre-reqs" and other courses that the end result seems a bit more than "just an ADN" that takes only two years. Spending over three years getting an ADN seems insulting.

I agree whole-heartedlly, as I have said many time on allnurses. The people who should be most angry about the current state of affairs are the current ADN and Diploma students. Their schools are taking their money and requiring almost as much work as a typical bachelor's program -- but not awarding them the higher level degree. In many cases, they are getting ripped off by their schools.

The only way to justify the existence of the ADN and Diploma programs is to make them clearly different from the BSN programs -- and most schools don't want to do that. They want their grads to be considered equal to the BSN grads, but won't make the necessary changes to be allowed to award the BSN degree.

[HerbalGypsy]

My only response is that to become an RN, ADNs and BSNs all must take and pass the same exam. Therefore, they should get the same pay.

[kathi yudin]

i don't believe that it is the degree that makes you a good nurse.. it is common sense and attitude.. i started as a nurses aide.. went to a diploma program and then an adn program back in the 70's when nurses did team nursing and emptied bedpans.. gave bed baths and back rubs.. in 2004 got my bsn and am now in a masters program going for my gnp.. school prepares us for nursing dx .. caring for patients.. it does not prepare us for the real world.. that comes after graduation.. and with experience.. as director of nursing.. i work w/ many new grads who come out of school thinking that they know it all and can do it all.. they are looking at care through rose colored glasses.. and are not prepared for the actual workload.. book work may be there.. skills may not.. in an adn program there is more emphasis on skills.. in a bsn program.. emphasis on books.. however.. the actual learning does not take place until they actually get a job and have to work in the real world.. lpn..lvn.. rn.. adn.. bsn.. doesn't make you a nurse.. it just gives you the tools needed.. what makes you a nurse is how you handle the pressure.. the skills.. the patients.. in the real world.. remember that attitude is everything.. being open to learn from those who have been there.. that is what seperates the nurses from the wanna be's.. no matter what the preparation..

[kathi yudin]

no insult intended to you.. however.. i do feel that your instructor has insulted every nurse that is working and every student when saying any monkey can be taught to do... we are not monkeys.. we are trained professionals that have gone through yrs of schooling to learn and understand... while we may be descended from apes.. i truly do not believe we can teach a monkey to start an iv.. watch for the side effects of medications.. the start of illness prior to it actually being evident.. any teacher that can say that.. should not be teaching.. and by the way.. i do teach lvn students..so i am aware of what goes into preparing students..

[krystaldragon721]

RN, ADN, BA (Sociology) here. There are smart nurses, there are dumb nurses. The level of education doesn't mean diddly squat, it's about what you put into it. How many idiot doctors are there out there? Lots of them..and they make way more money than any of us do. But there again, a good doctor is one who puts his time and interest into the profession. I used to work in a trauma/ER unit. Average patient number per day was 400. We had residence working there. How much school is that? 8 years? One of the residence's ordered 7mg of Decadron for a 6 month old. My theory is he is dumber than a jack hammer.

What is the first thing they teach us in nursing school? Never, never, never IV push potassium. I'll never forget the last week of school, my clinical cohorts and I were sitting around joking about passing the final and someone made a joke about writing down how fast you push potassium. One of the other students, serious as a heart attack, says "how fast do you push potassium?" Now she had the same education I did....soooooooo what's up? It's all about what you put into it.

[JustMe]

hi everyone..

this is well known debate that eveyone gets tired because there are so many nurses out there..dipolma, ADN, BSN grads that everyone takes this argument personally...anyways..my point is that if the health care profession wants to take nurses as seriously ...professionals..as opposed to "angels that care"..we need the education to back it up...the reason..why diploma nurses and ADN graduates cont to work as nurses..is because the demand is huge....so thats why non BSN graduates cont to get hired..even in big teaching hospitals..if youlook at other professions...Teachers...require masters degrees..physical therapists..are soon requiring doctorates...this has nothing to do with the competency of diploma or ADN nurses........I'm actually an ADN nurse....who went back to school as a second career...because the demand is high..I knew that I didnt need a BSN to get a RN job

This is the first posting I've read that discusses the professionalism of nursing. "Professionals" like doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc. all have college degrees. Nurses are professionals and we, too, should have some kind of college degree. As to who makes the better nurse? Think about it. How many of us see poor medical care from certain doctors? Remind yourself that every graduating class has someone who graduates at the bottom of the list!

[blueiwahine]

I have my BSN degree...have to admit I never really worked as an aide...I attempted it, but nursing school was a ***** and between that and trying to deal with family matters too...there just wasn't enought time to be an aide and keep my grades decent... and I do admit it hurt me....Yes! I know there are people that have done it...but I was not able to...call me weak if it makes you feel better...I came from a non medical background. I was 38 when I started nursing school ...42 when I finished it...and I have no problem letting you know I do not feel as competant as some nurses who got their LVN or ADN...but that doesn't mean I won't get it all undercontrol with a little work experience...I thought about going LVN, upward mobility route, etc...but when all said and done it was shorter to just do my BSN. So everyone will have different levels of nursing experience...but I'm sure for all it will come with time...I do not feel that I am better than an LVN or ADN...everyone had a reason why they went to the level they did. I do understand there are alot of snotty BSN newcomers...but that doesn't mean everyone is that way.

[kittenlittle]

hi everyone..

this is well known debate that eveyone gets tired because there are so many nurses out there..dipolma, ADN, BSN grads that everyone takes this argument personally...anyways..my point is that if the health care profession wants to take nurses as seriously ...professionals..as opposed to "angels that care"..we need the education to back it up...the reason..why diploma nurses and ADN graduates cont to work as nurses..is because the demand is huge....so thats why non BSN graduates cont to get hired..even in big teaching hospitals..if youlook at other professions...Teachers...require masters degrees..physical therapists..are soon requiring doctorates...this has nothing to do with the competency of diploma or ADN nurses........I'm actually an ADN nurse....who went back to school as a second career...because the demand is high..I knew that I didnt need a BSN to get a RN job

There are really two issues here;

1) "Nursing as a Profession", requiring entry level having their BSN. This is the only way we stand a chance to be viewed as true professionals, just like with physicians, lawyers, teachers, physical therapists, and occupational therapists, etc.

2) Higher education for higher wages with the same workload. This is a great incentive to get our current seasoned ADN's and Diploma RN's to obtain their BSN so we can be viewed as true professionals!

I too still need to finish my RN-BSN, yet I do not feel that a BSN necessarily makes you a 'better' nurse. We just all need to get on the same page and stick together once and for all.

[BikerDi]

After 20+ years of nursing as a Diploma RN and my experience being Med-Surg, SICU, Trauma, Transplant and Informatics - I am not going back to school to get a BSN. It just doesn't make sense for me to do this at this time in my life, it would not mean any more money, or higher career ladder.

I wanted to go to a Diploma program because it offered me what I needed. At the time the BSN programs were few in my area and I didn't want to go to ADN.

I was a non-traditional student, married, 2 children and working part time. I worked first as a Unit Secretary and then later as a Student Tech NA. While in school served as an officer of our Student Nurse Association and was active in the national and state associations. I continue to be active at the national, state and local levels of the nursing associations. I continue to go to conferences not only as an attendee but also as a presenter.

I have advanced in my career every time I made a change.

The bottom line...

Every licensed RN took the same NCLEX exam. Does that make everyone equal? Yes, as entry level Registered Nurses. What you do after that is dependent upon your knowledge and skill and knowing how to apply it. Sometimes education might play a part and sometimes it doesn't. Until the Peter Principle comes into play...this I have seen quite a bit unfortunately.

I love being a nurse and am thankful that I have had this opportunity in my lifetime.

[IrishEyes20]

The bottom line...

Every licensed RN took the same NCLEX exam. Does that make everyone equal? Yes, as entry level Registered Nurses. What you do after that is dependent upon your knowledge and skill and knowing how to apply it. Sometimes education might play a part and sometimes it doesn't. Until the Peter Principle comes into play...this I have seen quite a bit unfortunately

Exactly. You hit the head of the nail on this one. Looking at this debate as a new nursing student I can see where everone is coming from. There aren't very many schools in my area that offered a BSN program or I may have just went that route. I was just accepted into the Nursing program for Fall 07 and I have been attending my current school the last 3 years (a county college) The first 2 years for pre reqs and the last year waiting. The ASN program will take me a total of 2 years giving me a total of 5 years for my ASN degree. I plan on pursing my BSN because I like learning and more education never killed anyone. That would give me a grand total of 7 years.... something is telling me I should have become a Doctor. (just kidding )

I really just think we need to keep in mind what BikerDi said. Hey we are all on the same team right?

By the way, this is my first post... don't be to harsh, haha.

Take care, Leslie

[picasso]

HI, I hear your frustration and I've been there... this is such an old issue that I've heard and experienced myself. I'm a Canadian Nurse, I started out as a Nurses Aide when I was 16 years old and then did my LPN and then became a Registered Psychiatric Nurse, then I did my Advanced Diploma in Psychiatric Nursing and recently achieved a BSPN. I worked very hard to achieve a degree...it cost me alot of time, money sacrifice and relationships. I don't agree that a Nurses Aide should make the same amount as a person with advanced education...what would be the incentive to achieve higher education if that was the case? Should a lawyer earn the same as his secretary. Its not a matter of the NA working harder or knowing more than the degree nurse...its a matter of qualifications to fit the job requirement. I used to share your view before I knew what is actually involved and all I can say is that things are not as simple as they appear to be to the "untrained eye." At times I let my emotions lead to making judgmental call and called nurses 'stupid' because there assessments differed than my 'on-the-job' trainng and I also took things personal. I also went back to school to earn the credibility I knew I deserved and so that I could provide my patients with the best care I can give. NOt everyone has the opportunity for higher education...family committments, finances, access to education to name a few. There were many times I helped a new RN through the transition time from student to 'charge nurse' and showed them how to do new procedures and covered up there mistakes...yes there are incompetent nurses and there are incompetent para professionals, but I still say that if your investing in education and willing to accept the additional responsibility that comes with the health care system then yes you deserve financial compensation... it does not translate into 'better than others.'

[yeljet]

I had my BSN from the Philippines and I'm proud that even though we are a developing country, we only have one pathway (BSN) to become a Registered Nurse.

I worked in the United Kingdom for six years, they too have associate and degree courses and before I left, there were debates to change the curriculum to an all-degree level of education.

I remember my college professor who fought for the all-degree nursing in the Philippines. Her argument is that for nurses to deliver quality health care, they should all be first class and educated at degree level.

If I will be a patient, I want the best nurse to care for me. A nurse that is caring, competent, and certain of what he or she is doing.