Just an Accident? Or Intentional Killing?

[Meerkat]

Let me say right up front that the incident that I am writing about is very upsetting and graphic, so read at your own risk.

A girl about 10, was being treated on our unit for behaviour problems. She also had some psychosis involving auditory and visual hallucinations.

One of the major incidents regarding this child was the death of the family dog, who was found in a drawer with scissors and a bottlecap jammed down its throat (a toy breed, chihuahua size).

The girl says the dog tried to eat the bottle cap off the floor, choked, and then the girl tried to retrieve the bottlecap with the scissors. The dog died, and she panicked so she wrapped the dog up and put him in the drawer.

The mother believes her...here's the clincher...

this girl later that year pushed her older brother into a swimming pool, where he drowned. According to the mother and the girl that was also an accident.

I know you don't have alot of history to go on, but what are the chances that BOTH of these deaths were accidents? I'm skeptical, and I think the mom is in denial.

[Meerkat]

P.S.

The incident was in our local news awhile back, so this is public knowledge.

[tencat]

OMG! Accidents? Yeah RIGHT. The best thing for that monsterous child is to keep her locked away from the public. She'll kill someone else if she is allowed back out among the rest of us.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

omg! accidents? yeah right. the best thing for that monsterous child is to keep her locked away from the public. she'll kill someone else if she is allowed back out among the rest of us.

looks like she already has killed her brother! the mother may be in denial -- who could blame her? -- but needs to be shaken out of that denial asap!

[hbncns35]

Best Case scenario- they were accidents

Worst Case scenario - they were not accidents.

both need to be explored without focusing on either side..............

[LoriAlabamaRN]

Either way, this child is going to need serious help. If they were accidents, she's gonna need help dealing with them, and if they weren't... well she needs help PERIOD.

[CharlieRN]

This what we have courts for. Nurses care for their patients, without judging them. It is our job to be our patients advocates, always, even if they are murders. I have had atleast one, quite likely two murders as patients.

[Meerkat]

This what we have courts for. Nurses care for their patients, without judging them. It is our job to be our patients advocates, always, even if they are murders. I have had atleast one, quite likely two murders as patients.

I think you might have misunderstood my intention of this thread. It's not about judging the patient, it's about getting others' professional opinions from the psychiatric/clinical standpoint.

When you say you have had 'murders' as patients, you mean 'murderers'? right?

[JeanettePNP, MSN, RN, NP]

It's very possible that she's guilty, but as Charlie said there has to be some outside involvement here to evaluate the situation and determine her culpability and what course of action to take. Wasn't the brother's death ever looked into?

[Meerkat]

It's very possible that she's guilty, but as Charlie said there has to be some outside involvement here to evaluate the situation and determine her culpability and what course of action to take. Wasn't the brother's death ever looked into?

Yes. It was said that the family was 'at a distance' from the pool and that they did not see what happened, but they insisted that she loved her brother and would never ever hurt him. Ruled as an accident. It just seems suspicious that we have a history of animal cruelty, bed wetting, and behaviour problems. Isn't the triad for sociopathy enuresis, animal cruelty, and sexual acting out? Or is the last one fire setting?

[Meerkat]

By the way, the brother's death was almost two years ago, the case has been closed.

[rn/writer, RN]

Yes. It was said that the family was 'at a distance' from the pool and that they did not see what happened, but they insisted that she loved her brother and would never ever hurt him. Ruled as an accident. It just seems suspicious that we have a history of animal cruelty, bed wetting, and behaviour problems. Isn't the triad for sociopathy enuresis, animal cruelty, and sexual acting out? Or is the last one fire setting?

The triad is eneuresis, animal cruelty, and fire setting.

Whatever happens clinically to this child, she should never be left unsupervised around other children or animals. If there are other children in the home, she should be removed or they should. That might sound harsh but this is an extreme situation.

Does she have any fire-setting history?

One possibility to consider is RAD--radical attachment disorder. Some of these kids are pretty scary. And it isn't always adopted kids who fall into this category. Bio kids with early separation problems--months in a NICU, abrupt change in caregivers, early illness, etc. can also show signs of RAD. Which is not to say that any kid with these things in their past is going to start snuffing puppies. Only to say that on occasion, kids can suffer emotional trauma that prevents them from connecting with others and developing the empathy that keeps us all from killing each other.