hbncns35

Hi, Five weeks before graduation from a BSN program I had a bout of my mental illness because of high stress of a classmate of mine slandering me on the hospital's campus where I had been externing at. As a result, my school wanted that to home school me and that was not going well either with little participation from the instructors. I ended up going in to school not realizing that they did not want me there, I drove rather quickly in the parking lot trying to get to a scheduled test and zoomed by my teacher and an adminstrator, went in to take the test and 20 min into it I was asked to leave by campus police and the VP of student affairs, my class was evacuated and I was arrested by township police still trying to figure out what happened? Turns out I have all these charges against me and little by little they are being whittled away... I ended up losing my job at the hospital because I got angry at the unit I was on and sent them info. about me that was damaging- about my mental illness- as soon as they heard I was a manic depressive, they dismissed me and I found out in our state they can discriminate against you and do that anyway. My charges have gone down to summary offfenses and the school is negotiating for my diploma where he says they may find me unfit to be a nurse and it would be up to the BON to figure this one out. Has anyone with a similar problem like this have issues with the board and how did it turn out?

Quick Reply- Maybe this will help you Meerkat- Hope so.... www.power2u.org/debate.html If that is not what I think it is, PM me and I will get it to you. Just some interesting info on IOC's. Wish you were my nurse when I went through my difficult time(s) You have a conscience.....................HB

Hi Meerkat, I am very glad to hear that your patient will be transferred hopefully to a place where he feels he can participate in his tx. Yes, a PAD would be appropriate if he can locate a POA who would be willing to act on his behalf and it is always helpful to have someone who is knowledgeable either you or someone else who can identify certain treatments that he would be willing to participate in to regain his health i.e - prn's, anti-psychotics,anti-depressants, etc. Also included would be which particular facility(s) he feels comfortable in an perhaps a phone tree of relatives/friends that may be called upon to retreive clothes and personal items while at the hospital. And possible behavior modifications that would or would not be allowed in reference to that facilities standards and what would be allowable. And also timelines for rehabilitation if he knows his illness cycle and down time period in order to request certain tx at certain times all overviewed by an MD. Copies of PAD's are to be given to current Pdoc, faciltyMD, therapist, all who are named, and held on the person afflicted, and even the mental health judge in that particular area. Mine is always with me. For people who have dealt with MI on a continuous basis, who are aware of what works for them/what does not and can find a facility who is willing to work with a PAD or is also aware of the legal ramifications, this can be an appropriate way to take control of your healthcare, be proactive, and protect yourself against those either have fear and are needlessly trying to protect themselves from you by calling in the "calvary", this document says,"Yes I have a problem and Yes I am being responsible in taking care of that problem by the following outlined procedures. And here are the numbers of the people who follow my care." Similar to a living will- I have found it stops those overagressive "I know what's best for you people" once they realize they could be entangled into a legal mess. Just a way to say "Back Off" You are crossing the line.... Best thing I ever did - eliminated all those unnecessary bills of thousands and thousands of dollars that I was responsible for because someone else deemed it necessary to make havoc of my life.....b/c of MI/lack of ins. Shouldn't we all be responsible for our own healthcare? Get a living will or/And PAD today.....

Ahhh, In here lies the question - The System wherever you may be tends to know what it states : "Physical" Danger to self or others, then one can be detained. But among that description, there are statements added such as If they don't eat or sleep or in essence do not take care of self. Even if that itself is not objective enough the implied threat is still there. So, the mental health rules can say one thing, mean another and when questioned can be brought to any other significant meaning that a judge would then consider. Point is there is not much point in fighting a system when it keeps changing the meaning and validity of its own rules. And again I am not sure what is going on with this situation. As one poster said, there may be things we do not know and I can only rationalize from my own experiences being detained in mental health "jails" as I would call them....and how hopeless It can get. So I do have empathy for this gentleman because I know how difficult it is to get out once they've got ya, regardless of what the "rules" say because unfortunately they can change at any given moment and you are overpowered by whomever the "authority" may be and wherever the interests lie and this is not always the patient's interests-you are looking at community/political interests, authority's reputation and legal ramifications of where responsibility lies "if" the manic takes a turn. Possibility Yes Probability No. Depends on how authority sees situation, their influences and who's pushing. Lots of Factors at work. This thread may be at the beginning of seeing what really happens within the system for someone who is mentally ill and non-violent. I don't think the system has guidelines for non-violent or violent persons but most end up fending for themselves. They just lump em all together...Yes they do say danger to self or others but there are alot of interpretations to that. Rules/Laws can be bent, have unknown exceptions and be stretched. Lots of Grey Areas within MI system...... That's the "beauty" of the system. (sarcastic) Lots of issues of Power and Control, submission and allowance. Will continue to pray for his outcome...................HB How influential are you with your MD?

I would have to agree with Tiny here, Lots of Manic Patients are good at convincing otherwise, make sure he hasn't convinced you.....But still be objective about it from his point of view. You still want to advocate for him, just within reason...........Better to air on side of caution in this case.... Could save him plenty.................HB

Perhaps the power may very well be in the large corps. and the government but this will only change as more people who are aware of it, decide these sources are acting in unequal fashion and demand for more coverage to those services such as you listed. Pressure goes along way and now we have seen reconstruction being covered where it wasn't before. This is because society came together and said "That's enough!!!!" So Yes the power for change still remains in our hands in order for mandated legislation to change we have to take Action towards that Reality... It can be done!!! Maybe not for me but those who come after me.... Gotta Get some exercise - Good Point Multi.....HB

I must say I am really enjoying these posts... To take a look at what we are saying and what may or may not be a misconception is a real step forward in the right direction. People with disabilities whether mental/developmental or whatever still need to be viewed as someone with some sort of condition but with that the definition needs to have an inclusion that the person affected has abilities, competence, needs, feelings, thoughts and Dreams....People who have disabilities long to be recognized for who they are despite their condition and for what they too can contribute to our world. People come in all different packages and all need the dignity of being cared for and nurtured to become the best that they can be along with all of our children. I am glad there are posters like you that will stand to defend those affected with disabilities of all kinds..... Thank You, Heather (Disability with a Purpose)

Hi Meerkat - First off, you call an organization bigger than yourself to ask for anonymous advice. An organization who is familiar with this type of story all too often. NAMI, NARSAD, NIMH, or anyone else you can google........ There are people within these organizations can proceed with telling you what the rights are for your state and how you can move within them for your particular patient. Sometimes things can be done and sometimes not, perhaps letting your patient know how difficult his situation is my be the empathy he needs to hear right now even if there is nothing that can be done. This is why much needs to be done in the attitudes we have directed towards those with mental illness. The cops have never been proponets of changing their superior attitude either. In hindsight after all this is over, you may want to encourage your pt to get to a lawyer and draw up an advance directive which legally states where the patient can go for treatment and which ones and who the power of attorney is who directs those decisions. This sometimes works but is awfully intimidating to those who want to wreck havoc with your life just because. Funny how pushing the legal limit stops people in their tracks, esp. if they know a lawyer is concerned. I protect myself in this way. I am moved by your compassion for this man and see things from a different perspective than most and I encourage you not to let go of this and get on the net to www.nami.org for information on your state level. You can continue to be affected by this or take the next step of action and find out what you can do and what you cannot. Makes a better psyche nurse to know all the facts at least for yourself....... And perhaps with an involuntary committment on the racks, the patient could see the light of day if they decide to take the 15 days already used and apply it to the 30 day committment or whatever it is in your state. This way, the family could be appeased, the MD inadvertedly glorified and the patient would know there was a means to the end of all this. Living in Limbo is not on the proactive side and does nothing but perpetuate this man's anxiety..Once you are in the system, there is little to be done except call a competent mental health lawyer to represent him in the hearing. Calling the coppers does nothing but moving within the realm of the law does..............GL...Find the loopholes.

Hey Mercy, All I am trying to convey is that it doesn't matter if it is a disorder or an illness or developmental or genetic, NO ONE should be put down, demoralized or discriminated against based on a God given situation. It is hard enough to deal with the problem, than have to deal with someone else's insensitivity to it. If we could only support each other without necessarily having to understand everything about it first. Maybe NASA can find that on another planet? I'll go there..........HB:lol2:

All I can say is that it took me 10 years to finish my BSN - start stop start stop for alot of reasons........but this May I graduate. Its truly not about how old you are or how long it takes but girl you already have what it takes ----DESIRE----- You lose that well youre done......But I can feel it in your post running strong through your heart............. So, regroup, reorganize, refresh and resurrect a positive attitude--- My advice - stay wherever you are, hunker down, realize you are closer than you think and move well within your own system and transfer. People who are already paying customers of a school are more likely to be accepted into their own program especially if you have a good track record already. If you go skipping around to every college you think may want you, you may lose your chance at the one that is already in your own backyard. Diffuse your anger with your advisor, suck it up and continue on that path. Yes. it sucks and you will be a tad bit older but hey, you'll get there. The Journey is the Destination.....You are learning patience - what is required of a good nurse.............Recognize this and may you be the better person because of it. Relax you'll get there at the right time for you!!! Which sometimes is different than what you had planned, but life always throws you curve balls, you just have to know how to get out of the way!!!! Good Luck- Heather/Class of 2006 BSN

Clee- From where I come from, this type of "kidnapping" happens more than one would realize. People in these types of situations are held against their will all the time and their little resources do nothing against institutions and MD's that are rolling in the green stuff and the connections.....Little can be done except to change the attitudes, responses and thoughts we have towards people with mental disabilities. Enough outrage can turn the system around if enough people push for change.........A system is only made up from the sum of its parts - General Systems Theory.... If your outraged enough as I have been, join NAMI in your area to help change laws and legislature regarding humanistic treatment of those afflicted. We can't do it alone.............HB

Meerkat - A 302 petition is for involuntary commitment. I will tell you that in PA this can happen very easily. Words true or untrue can be said against you and if a judge or representative of that judge deems those words to be credible or convincing enough, a judge can order law enforcement or designated emergency response to act with each other to detain an individual and bring that individual to treatment against their will even if they claim to be non-threatening. Usually in the case of the individual with a past history, the words or claims of the individual become non-existent and the petition for finding and detaining the individual is enacted and followed through to a 30 day minimum visit to a corresponding facility which has a bed available. A "court" is held with a mental health judge who reviews findings from the physician, nurses and family after a 10 day period to determine appropriateness of treatment and whether that individual needs further treatment in a state facility. Usually at this point if an individual is transferrred to a state facility, the treatment period consists of no shorter than 180 days or when appropriate housing/treatment is established. I am not sure what state legislature says in Florida but a little investigating should go a long way in your situation to uphold this gentlemen's rights and whether or not you have a way to intervene on his behalf. From my personal experience, a psychiatric history even non-violent is enough to warrant fear in decision makers sometimes looking more at what could happen then what will. Unfortunately in Pennsylvania we are barbaric and unrelenting and in the stone age when it comes to legislature and the proper treatment of the mentally ill. This is why there are so many groups advocating for these people in order to change the laws to reflect advances in humanistic treatment of those with mental disabilities. Today we even have insurance companies who are convinced the mentally ill do not deserve adequate compensation for services rendered but a heart bypass or chemotherapy session is covered with no problem. The insurance companies follow the legislature which governs the system which continually disqualifies the physical origins of mental illness and keeps society demoralizing those who are in desperate need of treatment and equal parity. Not sure what's happening there in Florida but if there is FEAR here, it is probably there as well. I am convinced there are two fears in life - That of death and that of having mental illness............ You sound as though you may just be an "angel" for this man by your selflessness and concern for his welfare. I hope you find there is something you can do........... Remember every patient needs a strong advocate and you sound like you are willing to fit that need. Let me know how it goes......HB

Ladies - Please check out www.disabilityisnatural.com (PFL) Perhaps this may help you with your discussion with others as it has helped me. Just as autism is unfortunate, I guess you could call Mental Illness a genetic disorganization of brain cells which afflicts on a developmental basis. Has there been a genetic cause for autism found? Which is worse - genetics or developmental or does genetic preclude developmental disorders? Question for the Creator at the People Factory....

Not sure, but how did he come across being an inpatient? And what does the law say in your state?