Is nursing for me???

[XcrMat]

So I've been on the fence about a number of things. I've recently graduated from a BSN program and I'm wondering if nursing is really what I want to do long term. My issues with nursing sort of center around nursing's image and general lack of professional esteem, especially being a male nurse. I cant stand being seen as inferior to physicians, or handmaidens. I think nursing is still a long ways away from gaining the prestige and recognition it deserves. In my personal opinion, that would take doing away with LPNs, ADN nurses, and possibly making an MSN the entry degree for nurses.

I kind of bounce around from different ideas of what I should do. I do realize it will be necessary and most beneficial to practice as a staff nurse for at least a year or 2. I'm thinking of getting an MSN/MBA online from Grand Canyon University or perhaps taking my LSAT and going to law school. Not sure yet...

I'm wondering if anyone is in a similar situation or has ventured into either law or administration after nursing school and can provide insight... Thanks :)

[nurseprnRN, BSN, RN]

When I got my MN I worked bedside by choice, along with many others-- our city had what was reported to be the highest percentage of MN nurses at bedside in the country, and it was an awesome atmosphere.

OP, if you don't feel up to or interested in the challenges --and rewards-- of bedside or hospital care, why not go browsing around the Specialties bar above for some other ideas? Widen your horizons! I can tell you from personal experience that there are so many, many ways you can get respect, good money, and (what it sounds like you need) self-esteem in nursing that you don't need to worry about going to another profession to do that. Your call, though.

[XcrMat]

Wow, ok... Although it's flattering to see the regard you have for what I say, perhaps I'm not expressing myself clearly. I have served as a military nurse in multiple continents, so yes I have a grasp for what nursing entails. I also have much respect for nurses and nursing as a profession. What I speak on is what I've observed as the societal perception. For example, in the media you commonly hear people say I'm going marry a Doctor or a Lawyer, or I'd like my daughter to marry a Doctor or Lawyer. How often do you hear, I hope my daughter will marry a nurse? Also, have you ever heard someone say "your so smart, why didn't you go to medical school. What I'm saying is that nursing school/ or nursing practice should not be thought of a less than medical school or medicine. This is once again, not me saying it is, because I believe they are simply 2 different avenues of health care. Physicians treat the disease itself, while nurses treat the manifestations of that disease. With advanced education should come an advancement in role. As for loosing the art of nursing; I'm not sure what your educational background is, but I have a degree in science, not art... The original purpose of this post was to gather insight, not prompt debate. Thanks :)

[roser13, ASN, RN]

"The original purpose of this post was to gather insight, not prompt debate."

I believe that debate is the best way to gather insightful opinions.

[loriangel14, RN]

So basically you are dissing nursing because you are worried about what others think? How would making everyone get an MSN change that? Who cares what people say? If you are proud of your profession that's all that matters. You seem to be too concerned about a perceived stereotype.

[nurseprnRN, BSN, RN]

Wow, ok... Although it's flattering to see the regard you have for what I say, perhaps I'm not expressing myself clearly. I have served as a military nurse in multiple continents, so yes I have a grasp for what nursing entails. I also have much respect for nurses and nursing as a profession. What I speak on is what I've observed as the societal perception. For example, in the media you commonly hear people say I'm going marry a Doctor or a Lawyer, or I'd like my daughter to marry a Doctor or Lawyer. How often do you hear, I hope my daughter will marry a nurse? Also, have you ever heard someone say "your so smart, why didn't you go to medical school.

I have had people tell me that my so smart, oops, I'm so smart, and why didn't I go to med school. I turn it on its head, challenge assumptions, and open their eyes a bit when I say that people need smart nurses too, because we have a lot of responsibility for things that are completely outside of the practice of medicine.

What I'm saying is that nursing school/ or nursing practice should not be thought of a less than medical school or medicine.

You'll get no argument on that from me. However, it is up to us to educate people that this should be true. Confirming their prejudices by leaving the profession was never an option for me. Be the change you want to see in the world, bear witness.

Physicians treat the disease itself, while nurses treat the manifestations of that disease.

Well, a somewhat limited view of nursing right there (this is my only understatement of the week, so mark it down :) ). Do you think this means that if someone is admitted to a facility s/he doesn't get nursing care until/unless s/he receives a medical diagnosis to relate it to? Do you think this means that the only care nurses render is related to that medical diagnosis? Nurses are legally and morally obligated to diagnose and treat people for far more than "manifestations of disease." Clarifying your understanding of the medical model and the nursing model may help.

With advanced education should come an advancement in role. As for loosing the art of nursing; I'm not sure what your educational background is, but I have a degree in science, not art... The original purpose of this post was to gather insight, not prompt debate. Thanks :)

Well, I have an advanced degree (MN, after a bachelor's of science, in nursing) and I have an advanced role. I work heavily in evidence-based practice concepts, largely honed in a general science education to begin and then in further study. As a matter of fact, seems to me that there are a number of advanced roles that require advanced education, and they are filled with people. Nurse people. Who have neither loosed nor lost their appreciation and practice of the many arts of nursing.

I hope these insights make their way into your gathering basket. Seems to me that the limited perceptions of nursing you decry in the society at large could need some updating...starting with yours. Do that, and go forth to spread the gospel.

[NayRN]

My initial response is no, nursing is not for you. May I ask why you put in the time to become a nurse? Or are you even a nurse yet-have you taken boards? To answer your other question, yes. I am a nurse who is going into law. I graduated with my ADN and worked med-surg for four years. I completed a BSBA last October, and my BSN this summer. In 2 weeks, I will begin a master's in jurisprudence in Health Care Law. This will not make me a lawyer, but I hope to work in administration or as a patient or nurse advocate when I am done. I believe that my four years of floor experience is/will be absolutely essential in the career I hope to have once I complete my masters. Nursing school is not easy, but in my opinion, one must actually experience bedside nursing in order to understand the essence of what it means to be a nurse. Too many administrators do not take the time to experience this before getting those higher level jobs their degree allows. Maybe that leads to some of the low-esteem in which nurses are held of which you speak.

During my four years as a nurse, there were times I felt like I was low-man on the totem pole, but that was mostly because of inexperience, and that will happen in any new career. When I knew better, I did better, and I gained confidence. I earned the respect of the rest of the healthcare team. Yes, nurses deal with the most base human needs on a daily basis. Life and death are pretty raw and naked. If bringing a glass of water to a dying patient makes me a handmaiden, then I suppose I am.

I am not currently working as a nurse. I quit to reevaluate my life and career and spend some time with my kids. I am returning to school because through my nursing experience I did identify many things I didn't like/agree with, and I decided to go into a field that would help me to hopefully correct some of the injustices that I have identified. However, I would not have known of these issues had I not "paid my dues" as a floor nurse. I have the utmost respect for floor nurses. The ones that have been there for years and years do what they do out of love and compassion for humanity. No, that is not for everyone. Burn out is common. Compassion fatigue is common. But those who do it for the right reasons, man, they are really something special.

[SoldierNurse22, BSN, RN]

I understand and share the frustration of the PPs on this board at the OP's lack of knowledge surrounding the nursing field, but folks, please take into consideration how the military views nurses, and thus how the OP's view of nursing has likely been shaped as a consequence.

Military nurses are (aside from the enlisted side of the house) almost exclusively BSN-prepared nowadays. There are a few exceptions if you wander into other branches on the reserve side of the house, but LPN enlisted and BSN officers are the norm in the mil.

Within the military itself, nurses (BSN--officers specifically) are not really able to develop their skills to the extent that a nurse on the outside can. (see below for further details).

The options for LPN enlisted are even more limited: attempt to get into one of the highly competitive green to gold programs to become a BSN RN or eventually leave nursing and head into a leadership position as an NCO that is probably unrelated to nursing and/or assistant nursing management.

For instance, I am a 1LT. I have been a licensed RN since 2010. I have been actively working on a floor for a little over 2 years, but I am already being groomed for a management-only position because I'm going to make Captain in a less than a year. In the Army (or the military in general), that is how nursing is perceived. If you aren't moving up and away from the bedside, you are either 1) failing as an officer or 2) a DOD civilian/contractor. Seriously. A specialty course will buy you a little extra time at the bedside, but the military tends to move its nurses very quickly away from the bedside and into management/provider positions (MSN, doctorate).

That is one of the things that frustrates me the most about the military--the rank/promotion structure places very little value on the crux of healthcare--the nurse at the bedside! The focus is so "leadership-oriented" that you lose the foundation of what makes a truly excellent RN at any level--a comfortable, working knowledge of how nurses function at the most basic, bedside level.

I love my patients, but I am being pushed away from the bedside--and not by my own choice--but because I am progressing in rank, and I have to! MSN for Major, Doctorate for LTC is the norm. Anything less makes you very likely to remain at present rank, not promote and possibly even feel the cold teeth of the budget cut as the military seeks to drop its numbers by the thousands.

So what does that tell the LPNs--those corporals and sergeants who work on floors with BSN-prepared nurses who are whisked off to management positions while they are green as grass and barely toe-deep in the vast knowledge and skill that is bedside care?

I'm not saying it's right, and OP, feel free to correct me, but this is the model that the military promotes.

Even scarier--that Colonel running the hospital may not have worked the floor since they were a 1LT. That could be over a decade of absolutely no exposure to what real, bedside nurses do.

Forgive the bold italics, but this is one of my big pet peeves right now.

OP, if this post describes your understanding of nursing, please do not believe what you saw in the military. Chances are, it was quite misleading. The military has some incredible opportunities and plus-sides for nursing. It isn't all negative. But this is one of the major flaws in the overall system.

Some of the people I respect the most are nurses who have been floor nurses for the length of time I've been alive. There's nothing wrong with getting into management or advanced practice if that's where you want to go. But do not fall prey to the dangerous idea that floor nursing makes you a "handmaiden" to a physician. If that's the case, this handmaiden saved a couple of lives and cover many a resident's behind in her days on the ward!

[XcrMat]

Lack of knowledge? FYI, the military has always been at the forefront of advancements in nursing and research throughout healthcare. But I'm glad you brought that up. You are correct that Army Nurse Corps only accepts BSN's as entry level RN's. Because of the economy and military/ spending cutbacks, the ANC is becoming even more exclusive and an elite group of nurses. You should be proud to be an Army Nurse. This exclusiveness and increasing standards of practice that the military is implementing will eventually make it's way to the civilian sector, just as it has historically. As for leadership-orientated rank/promotion structure, that may be more intrinsic to the military, especially seeing as all officers are expected to be leaders. However, there are other options while advancing through the ranks besides management/ administration. The ANC has specialties and APRN schools. Also, I have nothing but respect for bedside nursing as well. Nonetheless, I do appreciate the input. Please try to keep in constructive... Thanks :)

[MunoRN, RN]

I'm always a little confused when people claim that society doesn't respect Nursing. There are various surveys and polls on this and Nursing is typically in the top 10 or even top 3, often ahead of Doctors and very, very far ahead of lawyers. I sometimes wonder if the lack of respect for Nursing exists mostly within Nursing.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

I appreciate your point of view and you unique situation for the military. Outside of the military nurses are held in high regard. I have been admired and promoted because of my clinical expertise at the bedside. I have been a nurse for 35 years. I have had a successful Illustrious career to be proud of and never once did I feel disrespected or that I was less somehow because I was not a doctor.

Over the years I have been asked about furthering my career or why didn't I become a doctor....but I didn't want to be the "Doctor" I wanted to be a nurse. I wanted the bedside...the nurturing side. The one in the trenches. However I n might have reconsidered it when I went to school emergency medicine was specialty. I didn't want to be a surgeon. I didn't want to take call. I didn't want an office. I wanted to do my thing and go home.

I am proud of what I have done and accomplished. I do not view myself as a handmaiden to anyone. As to what my schooling consists of I have 3 bachelor degrees...music, biology and Science/Nursing accompanied by multiple specialty certifications. I am an expert in my specialty.....and I am respected by my peers.

I think with every profession it is not the degree that makes the person great.....there is a certain knack, talent, gift, or art that makes one excell. Einstein had a doctorate in physics but there was something special about him that made him great. Just as not every physicist is Einstein.

OP not every nurse is cut out for the bedside...you need to find your niche. But you can't discount bedside nursing for in the end it is a bedside nurse who care for the sick and dying. Maybe another track is for you like CRNA or another advance practice.

Me? I'm happy with my patients and that doesn't mean I am not respected by my peers.

[SoldierNurse22, BSN, RN]

Lack of knowledge? FYI, the military has always been at the forefront of advancements in nursing and research throughout healthcare. But I'm glad you brought that up. You are correct that Army Nurse Corps only accepts BSN's as entry level RN's. Because of the economy and military/ spending cutbacks, the ANC is becoming even more exclusive and an elite group of nurses. You should be proud to be an Army Nurse. This exclusiveness and increasing standards of practice that the military is implementing will eventually make it's way to the civilian sector, just as it has historically. As for leadership-orientated rank/promotion structure, that may be more intrinsic to the military, especially seeing as all officers are expected to be leaders. However, there are other options while advancing through the ranks besides management/ administration. The ANC has specialties and APRN schools. Also, I have nothing but respect for bedside nursing as well. Nonetheless, I do appreciate the input. Please try to keep in constructive... Thanks :)

Yes, lack of knowledge. You have seen a very narrow slice of the nursing pie in the military. It is hardly representative of the profession as a whole.

FYI, I am well aware of the ANC's history and nursing's involvement in the military as both a civilian who was interested in a military career and as an Army officer--a role I take great pride in, thank you for your assumptions/concern.

While many incredible advancements have come from the military in terms of medicine as a whole and nursing as a profession, the military is also lagging behind the civilian sector in certain areas--areas that are rarely discussed in public because they would reflect poorly on the military. And one of those areas is promotion of bedside nursing and developing a structure that encourages nurses to remain and continue their practice at bedside.

For instance, many civilian hospitals have "levels" that nurses on floors can attain based on length of employment, involvement in committees, writing articles, conducting research, etc. It moves them up the ladder in pay, in seniority, etc. The military doesn't have anything like that. Promotion in the military means a movement away from the bedside or into an advanced practice. And while both of those are fine if you want them, it is unfortunate that there are no alternatives because the military is leaking solid, BSN-prepared nurses who want to remain at bedside.

I did in fact note the exceptions to promotion moving one from bedside to management (specialty courses, for instance), but even then, it's rare to see a Major working bedside. Captains, despite a specialty cert, are at high risk for being pulled to management--they will almost certainly be away from the bedside by the time they make Major. The fact remains--military nurses do not get the bedside experience that their civilian counterparts do. That's why the DOD civilians are so central to the military structure--they do the teaching. They carry their wards with their experience and knowledge. They often lend decades of bedside experience to a ward that would otherwise be staffed by mostly new nurses.

Like every system, the ANC has its intrinsic flaws and positive points, but the flaws oughtn't be overlooked. And just because I'm not willing to overlook them doesn't mean I'm not proud of what I do. I cared and continue to care for Warriors, many of whom gave their lives for this country in one way or another. To insinuate that I do not take pride in that simply because I have the nerve to point out some issues with the ANC is part of why the ANC has and will find it difficult to change.

Increased standards? Perhaps in some areas such as entry standards, but this is not the time to talk about increased standards in the ANC overall. Budget issues at the forefront of the concerns of late, my hospital has taken a "do it no matter how you get there" approach to medicine that would never be allowed to happen on the outside.

I'm not sure what you read in my post as less than constructive, but the insinuations in your post (as addressed above) speak to a very skewed view of nursing as a profession and the inner workings of the ANC. Do soak up the advice and knowledge of the nurses on this board. They can offer you a wider view of civilian nursing and perhaps correct some of the misconceptions you left the Army with.

[XcrMat]

I was not insinuating any lack of pride on your part, but pointing out the growing prestige of being a ANC nurse. As for less than constructive feedback, that was not directed towards you, but more of a general statement. You do bring up valid points about the military taking nurses away from the bedside with promotions. However, I would expect to see NP's and CRNA's involved in direct patient care all the way up to Colonel.

I'm sorry if I offend people here, as it seams I already have. But it raises an interesting topic. How long should one stay at the bedside? With years of experience and additional education, should that nurse be encouraged to move into a more advanced or leadership position?