ITT Tech's New Program??? - page 5
I was on the Oregon Board of Nursing page today and I saw that ITT Tech in Portland has been granted "initial approval" for an Associates in Nursing program!!! I called ITT to get more information,... Read More
Jun 12, '11In addition, OCNE students do not have to "compete" for entry to OHSU's BSN program. OCNE *is* part of the BSN program, and those who opt to continue to OHSU for their BSN don't have to apply or compete for spots. It's not another application process; it's a coadmission to OHSU. There's so much in all of your posts that I disagree with, and I wonder where you're getting your information. Maybe www.ocne.org will have some of the facts about which you're making conjectures.
Jun 12, '11Kamaboko and Jimithing112;
I'm a nobody. I'm also, clearly not very smart. My words are not worthy of your attention. I'd go with experts and trusted friends over the advice of a not-very-smart-nobody. Join that "club". That would be wisest. Decisions made upon sound beliefs and the best available information from trusted sources, are usually sound. I hope you find the "club" is all you expect it to be, and even better. Be happy.
OCNE is not my cup of tea. This leaves more "tea," for OCNE enthusiasts to drink. Your gain, my loss....don't you think? I'm glad to have an alternate choice.
I didn't see any of this data on the OCNE link posted above. Wow! You both sound like you are so well connected. I'm not as smart as you, so maybe you could be kind, and help a dummy out...? Especially since I will end up way more in debt than you, with a useless RN, and no job...if I'm lucky.
I'd sure like to know any of the following data. Maybe there is a direct link to a webpage, or something? I did not find it. ...or maybe someone with access to direct data in a program has might volunteer some of this data?
1) What's the overall graduation rate for OCNE programs?
(starting cohort #/graduating cohort #)
2) What overall percentage of OCNE students, finish the program within the length of the program?
(I.E.: Given a two year program, ___ % graduate within two years.)
3) Is there a required GPA to articulate into OHSU's BSN program? If so, what is the eligible GPA for articulating into OHSU's BSN?
4) What overall percentage of OCNE students have an eligible GPA to articulate into OHSU's BSN?
5) What percentage of overall OCNE graduates articulate into OHSU's BSN program?
6) Not counting OHSU graduates, what percentage of overall OCNE graduates are hired by OHSU - as graduate nurses?...for each year of the program?
7) Do OHSU student nurses and graduates have a disproportionately higher make-up of OCNE nurses employed by OHSU? ... and of seats in OHSU's nursing programs? What are the ratios?
8) Is OHSU's BSN program limitless to all OCNE students? What does it take, to be eligible to articulate into an OHSU BSN seat? (Can all OCNE students who want a seat, and meet a minimum eligibity, get a seat?)
9) What percentage of OCNE students, get a BSN seat at the point of articulation?
10) Counting the maximum seats available for each program, how many OCNE seats are available - throughout all of the OCNE system? How many OCNE seats are full, and actively in classes and eligible for clinicals - at any reasonably near point in time? (seats available/seats active - using the same point in time.)
If OCNE is tracking its own performance, they should know at least some of these numbers, right? If OCNE doesn't know any of these numbers.....?
Jun 13, '11Care1,
Your self-deprecating reply struck me as childish. As for all of those 'important' questions you posted, they struck me as pointless. Why is it important for me to know how long it takes another student to complete a program? Why is it important for me to know the graduation rate? I'm concerned with 'my' performance, not another student. Half the students in my first A&P class took it for a second time to get an 'A'. Was that to mean it was going to take me two attempts? No.
I'm sure there's plenty of tea at ITT for you to drink. I suggest you savor it at the price it's offered. $30K+ for an associates degree? Sheer insanity.
Jun 13, '11this is a gentle reminder to address posts to the issue or subject at hand and refrain from personal insults or attacks, per the terms of service.
Jun 13, '11kamaboko -
Your post was very mean spirited.
I'm sorry if I did anything to offend you. My previous post was more sincere than you might think. I may be the most unimportant person I have ever known.
You really do sound like you are well connected, ...and much smarter than me. I believe you will go much farther in life than me. Sincerely. Those stats are important - to me. I couldn't find them, and I've been looking for months... see how "not smart" I am?
If the stats were available, I believe they'd give an important description of the program. Nursing school, is nothing like pre-req's. I know from experience. Things just look a whole lot different, from the inside.
Your posts are really mean spirited, kamaboko.
Jun 14, '11I try not to get too controversial on this message board. But really, I do think nursing school should be a little exclusive. I do think potential nursing students should excel academically, and have life and work experience that support critical and independent thinking, scientific inquiry, and common sense. I want nurses who care for my family to be sharp, well-educated, and resourceful. I don't care where they went to school one bit. But I do think a rigorous application process gives Portland area medical facilities some great nurses, as well as a ton of new grads who can't find work.
I'm sure ITT can turn out fine nurses, but it comes at great expense to the student. I think that's what Kamaboko was saying; with so many schools, a new tech school that lacks accreditation by the state is not going to be as competitive. That is just information sharing to me, and not meant as an attack on anyone's decision. For me, that is an important piece of information as I decide where to spend my hard-earned money and precious time.
I'm not sure the what the criticism of the OCNE programs are; I certainly don't think they're the end-all, be-all for nursing programs. You can find out pass rates on the Oregon Board of Nursing website. It looks like they're above the required standard to stay NLN-accredited.
Also, an interesting study was published last year, about prospective nursing students in Oregon, and the exaggerated competitive claims. Check it out: http://www.ocnnursingdiversity.org/d...2010Report.pdf
Good luck to everyone in their nursing career. I think there is room enough for everyone. As a future OHSU student, I've read (and heard) a number of people in this forum, as well as in my classes, saying that attending OHSU was a waste of money when you could attend a community college and bridge in. Honestly, I could care less what others think of my academic and professional choices - it's a liberating feeling!
Jun 14, '11Thank you, airbender, for bringing a balanced and respectful response. I planned to, but didn't have the energy. Good luck at OHSU!
Jun 14, '11I agree that nursing programs should be competitive as getting into MD programs. This way they select best people to provide critical care for ill patients. In this job, you can't afford making mistakes because you can ruin people's lives. I don't think that more expensive program means that you're getting a better education. The difference is that community college and public university gets State funding while private colleges don't and have to charge its students higher tuition.
Jun 15, '11I am a student in the first cohort of ITT's ADN program in Portland Oregon. I have the advantage of having been an LPN for more than a few years before entering this program. I find many of the courses challenging, and have learned a few things along the way that I did not previously know, or fully understand.
I am not going to sugar coat anything, this program isn't "easy". I am fortunate to already have a background, otherwise I would struggle in this program. I work full-time and have a big family to care for. Any other nursing program would demand I be in a classroom or clinical setting 5 days per week. I am able to work, attend class and clinical, and still be a mother to my children; (that in itself is priceless!)while maintaining a 3.96 GPA.
We just finished up at a local clinical site and were told by all of the staff (including the nurses), that we were the best group of students they had ever seen come through their facility. I think as a practicing nurse that has had groups of students come through hospitals and facilities that I have worked for from programs like Linnfield, PCC etc. This was a huge compliment.
I would like to add a comment to anyone out there that is looking for a nursing program. It is not the program that makes the nurse. Each student takes what is offered from their program and applies it to their practice. I may take something totally different from this program than any other student in my cohort. I determine what kind of nurse I am. I improve on my practice by broadening my horizons by way of educating myself.
Best wishes to all who are trying to decide what will work best for them. I too was at the same crossroads, and I now feel I made the decision that was best for me and my entire family.
Jun 15, '11I don't think anyone is saying that having graduated from a for-profit college that accepts everyone who is willing to pay for it will automatically make you a bad nurse, or even a worse nurse than someone who graduated from a regular college or university. All we are questioning is whether you will ever get a chance to prove it--in a tight job market, if I were hiring, I would pick someone whose merits (undergrad work, medical experience, references, etc.) got them into the most competitive programs in the area. We should probably all walk away from this thread pretty soon because it is apparently impossible to be objective about it, especially if you are in it. (I always say, of course I think my way is the best--if I thought another way was better, I would do that.) I hope everybody gets a fulfilling job after graduation, and I intend no disrespect to anyone, whatever path you choose--just my
Jun 15, '11airbender....thanks!
kudos! ...and thank you for this link. this is great information for prospective nursing students. http://www.ocnnursingdiversity.org/d...2010report.pdf
nursing programs do need to be strong in ethics, in values, and in rigor. no one wants to become an rn, so they can kill patients. last i checked, all nurses need to pass the nclex to get their licences.
the osbn website, posts nclex pass rates, not retention rates. i'm greatful....but nclex pass rates alone don't mean a lot... a number alone, is just a number.
the state of california has nclex pass rates and retention rates for nursing programs. context makes stats more meaningful:
example1: -100% nclex pass rate:20% retention rate- (10/50)
in a 50 seat program, 10 consistantly graduate. all 10 consistantly pass the nclex - 100% pass. (the 10 who passed, may still not have the gpas to enter a bsn program.)
example2: -70% nclex pass rate: 80% retention rate. (35/50)
in a 50 seat program, 40 consistantly graduate and 35 consistantly pass the nclex 1st time..... i know which program looks better to me.
(the 5 who failed can re-take and pass the nclex. all 40, can still be nurses. the ones who re-take, may even be better rn's. all, may have the gpa's to enter a bsn program. )
good stats on a program, would lead to a better fit for nursing students - and a better fit for nursing programs. better data, better results - for everyone.
nursing programs take stats on their students. nurses take stats on their patients - even patients as important as the president of the united states. what's wrong with a nursing student asking for relevant stats on oregon nursing programs in order to make informed personal, finacial, and academic decisions - in the interest of finding a better fit?
for itt's costs: i calculate oportunity costs, not just the price tag. i factor in program odds, and personal costs. i don't have easy access to hard numbers. i guess, and gather info from students in the program:
1) 2-3 years in pre-reques
2) waiting 1-2 years wait to apply and get into a program
3) rough statistical probability of getting bumped out of a program, and having to wait 1 or more years or more to re-apply to other programs and start over - minimum 4 to 6 years before rn licensing.
4) income lost, due to years of delayed entry to the job market as an rn. each year of delay, constitutes a full salary of lost income.
5) risk comfort level
... for me, itt is the lower cost. and lower risk of failing. i believe itt can also do a better job of teaching me how to be a nurse, because they fit my learning style....i believe the job market will open up in 2013 - 2014. it won't matter as much at that time where my degree is from. there will be jobs for everyone. i'm willing to take the risk.
given 5 to 7 years to get through a 2 year nursing degree in ocne, and 2.25 years for itt - the oportunity cost of years working is ~ 4 times the annual salary of a starting rn. (the salary should go up, after 2 years experience.)
to me -not everyone - ocne represents a loss of 4 years of work as an rn at approx $40,000/year. roughly ~ $160,000 to $200,000+? toward the oportunity cost to take the longer, ocne route - and ocne has a higher probability of failure, just because ocne, finds value in making it difficult to learn, just for the sake of making things difficult. same basic material, different phylosophies of learning.
subtract the $24,000 to $20,000 for an ocne adn from the $30,000 for itt's program (credits transfered in). this gives an added up-front cost of $6,000 to $10,000 to go to itt. i'd be able to work ~ 4 years earlier and make ~$150,000+ added income on the back-end - and the probability of success is higher with itt. it 's very rough, and not precise. no matter how it is adjusted - itt is a much, much lower long-term cost.
from my perspective - maybe not for others - not only do the costs fall in favor of itt, so does the level of risks. as an ocne student, the chances of realizing any real gain from association with ohsu by being in ocne, is very, very low maybe not even 6% - maybe 2%? so, i can't see investing a high level of risk, more than half of a decade, and any money, for single digit chances at success and the loss of four years of income.
given i go on for an msn or bsn earlier via the itt route, -the total net savings would increase. i already have two business degrees, add foreign language skills - i should be marketable.
it won't pencil out the same for others. itt will not be the best bet for everyone, but it is for me.
did i read that post above correctly? "entrance in (two year) nursing programs, should be as difficult as entrance to md programs." an md is a doctorate. work more, to achieve less? is somebody going to be handing out doctorates at the adn and asn graduations? nurses are making goals, to make anything more difficult, and with difficulty being the main desired end? ...hmmmmm.... i don't see the advanatages here....is ocne the only one doing this?Last edit by PDXPonySN913 on Jun 16, '11