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So just to be clear....I am for immunizations. I am not for employers bullying people into getting immunized. If someone is having difficulty coming up with a convincing argument - just because they are bigger, and maybe smarter or better informed, they still don't have the right to physically make (or coerce) people to bend to their demands. A major tenent in healthcare, is the ability to communicate and educate. If healthcare employers can't convince their employees that getting immunized is a good idea...what does that say about their ability to educate and convince the public? Only, when healthcare employers abandon the idea of bullying employees into submission, will they be able to come up with a more viable educational message on immunizations. I am also an advocate of reasonable amounts of sick time. If people are coming to work sick, then make looking at labor agreements is the issue. I doubt people really want to go to work when they are sick. So, why are they? The unreasonable concept that no one can have time to be sick, is harmful. I suspect, that a major contribution to Over-The-Counter pharmaceutical abuses, and antibiotic abuses, is a desparate push to meet the unrealistic desire to comply with the demand of a work force that never calls in sick. I, for one, have had an employer call me in hospital. Despite being told I was not coherent enough to talk, and that the doctors didn't know what was wrong with me (I was convinced spider bite with shock). She demanded to know what was wrong with me, and when I would be back at work. I could have had some nasty new virus. She didn't care. She just wanted to meet her production. During the last swine flu outbreak, a different employer called me again, when I was knocked out of coherency and fevril at 104 F. She called me and demanded to know when I would be back to work - in a long-term care & skilled nursing facility. She was nurse, she didn't care about my symtoms, or if I had anything to relieve my fever or needed a ride to a doctor. I mean, that's would do for an employee or co-worker, ask if they needed anything. I didn't get the feeling she cared about the patients... I suspect that much, but not all, of the "proof" against immunizations is faulty. It is healthy, for a healthcare worker, to say, "Show me the evidence. Show me the proof." It is up to employers to come up with civil, & convincing arguments, and to demonstrate leadership skills when convincing people to comply. I have to say, having someone who has demonstrated care for your welfare tell you to get immunized, and having someone who has demonstrated they decidedly do not have concern for your welfare tell you to get immunized.... OK, they are the same message, ...but not likely to be received the same. So if healthcare employers force workers to get immunized, what is the plan for the general public? Military vehicles rounding up the non-immunized in every neighborhood? That healthcare workers are rufussing immunizations is actually a solid opportunity for healthcare industries to study ways to be more successful in educating the general public. An added bonus of letting people stay home sick once in while, is that maybe they will have time to do better research on the topic, and convince themselves to get immunized. I would love to see all healthcare workers, for whom it is medically indicated, immunized.

While some conditions of employment are lawful, others are not. For example, it is not lawful to make a sexual relationship, or a sexual assault, a condition of employment. It is logical, that if it is an assault, to force or coerce someone to be subjected to a procedure, then it should be illegal to force someone to do that same thing, as a condition of employment. Being an employer, does not make someone a lawmaker. It is a physical assault to force someone to be subjected to physical treatments, such as an injection, against their will - even if by coerced concent. It should logically, be a physical assault, to coerce someone to receive an injection as a condition of employment. There are risks, associated with some vaccines. The risks can be higher if you have an egg allergy. There have been quality issues in vaccines. Some people, just don't like being lab rats. ...on my part, I get vaccinated. However, I support the right of others to chose, and I do not support the unlawful right of employers to coercive physical measures as conditions of employment.

...I look forward to my flu shots. I don't want to get sick. Isn't the real issue here, nursing shortages? There aren't enough nurses to cover the sick leave shifts. Our healthcare workforce is running on bald tires. An investment must be made for everyone's safety. Those unemployed new grads, need to be hired and trained. Failure to plan for and train the nurses needed today, and in the future - is negligent. As long as there are thousands of U.S. new grads with licenses who can't get jobs, whose fault is it, really, if there are not enough nurses to cover sick days? I can see why nurses must have extraodinary levels of accountability, and extrodinary levels of responsibility. I'm all for having people leave hospitals, alive. I cannot see why nurses should be rewarded for all that they do, and all that they sacrifice, with the loss of personal and individaul rights. Take away the nurses right to refuse immunizations, ...What other medical services, proceedures, or medications will become mandatory? If I force a competent patient to go under the needle, isn't that against the law? Why should it be lawful to make nurses submit to activities unlawful for the general public? Once one employer makes it lawful and mandatory -they all will. Free choices will not exist. Please, get immunized.... I see no problem with using positive incentives. How about ... three added paid days off, for nurses who get immunized? I'd bet the immunization rates would go up.

I'd ask to meet and hand deliver a typed, professional letter. No one has to give you a job. Be sure to thank them for the opportunity. I'd give two weeks, at least and offer to stay up to a month, if needed so they can take their time in making a new selection. I'd anticipate they'd let me go before two weeks are up. I would not indicate I was "bored", but find something honest and positive to say about the company or the people I worked with. Are sure about quitting? Maybe the added hours or some aspect of the Adult Day Care could make you eligible, for a better position or more hours at your hospital job? "I'm bored." Does not sound like a great combintion with meds...be careful.

.... to report a train wreck. (No trains, or train tracks for miles.) ....to report someone making noises inside the fireplace. (No fireplace in the room.) ....to complain about not being allowed to go to the bar in the next room. (Apparently, the staff were all conspiring to keep the pt. sober. This, was the angriest patient I ever had. - No bar, in the place.) ...to complain, "No satin sheets! I can't sleep on these things!" What kind of a place is this! I'm going home! ...and the taxi was on the way. They made life more interesting. I'll take call lights over people out of bed on the floors, any day or night.

You could ask the NY state board of nursing, and the NLN (National League of Nursing) about job prospectives and credentialing. It would take a lot longer, but ... have you looked at accelerated masters programs for Non-nursing BS or BA's? It depends on what your plans are. If you don't know what nursing schools are like, you might interview nursing students at NY. It could make a great article. Go in with your eyes wide open, before you jump.... A lot of people are dumping many years and thousands of dolars into getting a little ol' two year degree in a gloomy job market, only to find out some very important details got left out of the information sessions - three to four years into their little two year degree, and before they even get into a nursing program. It's tragic.

That's sad news. It sounds difficult. I have no answers. You have a British flag, are you in the US? If you are in the US, did you look into FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act)? You need to take care of yourself, too. Maybe you actually need time off work for yourself, ...now? What about your labor union? Do you have one? Did the reason for your sick leave come up in your review? ...Kind of not nice if they weren't understanding, hmm.... Try this, ...left hand on right shoulder, right hand on left shoulder, ...and hug. I hope things get better for you, soon. From an unqualified perspective, it sounds like you're experiencing some kind of stress. But I don't know. Why leave yourself with an unanswered question in regard to PTS? It may create more stress - living with the unknown. It's OK to look for an expert's opinion. If you think it'll help, go see a councelor and see what they say. Which ever country you're in, a counselor may know of legislation that supports an unpunished, leave from work. It's "OK" to ask for help. It takes strength, to ask for help.

It sounds like what you are describing is a written contract. In business, and in law, written contracts stand over verbal. This is why you never assume you will get something, unless you see it in writing. Most likely, prior to getting the paperwork ready for your husband to sign, approval was confirmed by more than one department for his salary, as was on the final form he signed. If the employer comes back to your husband, and says, "Oh my. That was a typo! ...you don't mind if we pay you less than the signed contract, do you?" ...and they give him a lower wage...they'd be flirting with a law suit. I don't see them doing that. -No. They cannot make him pay it back. If your husband goes back to them, and says, "This is a mistake. You should pay me less." This may constitute as a counter offer, or wage re-nagotiation offered by your husband, then they may have legal grounds to pay him less. It is possible, HR, or management, will be made to look incompetant, if an error is pointed out by HR or Management. They may have less respect for your husband, for giving up the money. It could put him in an unfavorable light, if his actions make them look bad. Let it stand...and hang on to that signed contract. It's possible the prior re-cruiter had problems in valuing new hires, and this is why he is no longer with the company. Less pay, is not alway cheaper. Turnover, or people leaving a company resulting in the need to re-hire replacements, costs companies buckets of money. (Something to think about, if you work with a person who excels at getting people fired, or inspiring others to quit.) As a financial strategy toward lowering HR costs, it can make sense to pay people more, even new grads, to keep them from seeking greener pastures in the near future. His higher pay may be reflecting a new management phylosophy.

airbender....thanks! kudos! ...and thank you for this link. this is great information for prospective nursing students. http://www.ocnnursingdiversity.org/d...2010report.pdf nursing programs do need to be strong in ethics, in values, and in rigor. no one wants to become an rn, so they can kill patients. last i checked, all nurses need to pass the nclex to get their licences. the osbn website, posts nclex pass rates, not retention rates. i'm greatful....but nclex pass rates alone don't mean a lot... a number alone, is just a number. the state of california has nclex pass rates and retention rates for nursing programs. context makes stats more meaningful: example1: -100% nclex pass rate:20% retention rate- (10/50) in a 50 seat program, 10 consistantly graduate. all 10 consistantly pass the nclex - 100% pass. (the 10 who passed, may still not have the gpas to enter a bsn program.) example2: -70% nclex pass rate: 80% retention rate. (35/50) in a 50 seat program, 40 consistantly graduate and 35 consistantly pass the nclex 1st time..... i know which program looks better to me. (the 5 who failed can re-take and pass the nclex. all 40, can still be nurses. the ones who re-take, may even be better rn's. all, may have the gpa's to enter a bsn program. ) .................................................................................. good stats on a program, would lead to a better fit for nursing students - and a better fit for nursing programs. better data, better results - for everyone. nursing programs take stats on their students. nurses take stats on their patients - even patients as important as the president of the united states. what's wrong with a nursing student asking for relevant stats on oregon nursing programs in order to make informed personal, finacial, and academic decisions - in the interest of finding a better fit? ................................................................................... for itt's costs: i calculate oportunity costs, not just the price tag. i factor in program odds, and personal costs. i don't have easy access to hard numbers. i guess, and gather info from students in the program: 1) 2-3 years in pre-reques 2) waiting 1-2 years wait to apply and get into a program 3) rough statistical probability of getting bumped out of a program, and having to wait 1 or more years or more to re-apply to other programs and start over - minimum 4 to 6 years before rn licensing. 4) income lost, due to years of delayed entry to the job market as an rn. each year of delay, constitutes a full salary of lost income. 5) risk comfort level ... for me, itt is the lower cost. and lower risk of failing. i believe itt can also do a better job of teaching me how to be a nurse, because they fit my learning style....i believe the job market will open up in 2013 - 2014. it won't matter as much at that time where my degree is from. there will be jobs for everyone. i'm willing to take the risk. given 5 to 7 years to get through a 2 year nursing degree in ocne, and 2.25 years for itt - the oportunity cost of years working is ~ 4 times the annual salary of a starting rn. (the salary should go up, after 2 years experience.) to me -not everyone - ocne represents a loss of 4 years of work as an rn at approx $40,000/year. roughly ~ $160,000 to $200,000+? toward the oportunity cost to take the longer, ocne route - and ocne has a higher probability of failure, just because ocne, finds value in making it difficult to learn, just for the sake of making things difficult. same basic material, different phylosophies of learning. subtract the $24,000 to $20,000 for an ocne adn from the $30,000 for itt's program (credits transfered in). this gives an added up-front cost of $6,000 to $10,000 to go to itt. i'd be able to work ~ 4 years earlier and make ~$150,000+ added income on the back-end - and the probability of success is higher with itt. it 's very rough, and not precise. no matter how it is adjusted - itt is a much, much lower long-term cost. from my perspective - maybe not for others - not only do the costs fall in favor of itt, so does the level of risks. as an ocne student, the chances of realizing any real gain from association with ohsu by being in ocne, is very, very low maybe not even 6% - maybe 2%? so, i can't see investing a high level of risk, more than half of a decade, and any money, for single digit chances at success and the loss of four years of income. given i go on for an msn or bsn earlier via the itt route, -the total net savings would increase. i already have two business degrees, add foreign language skills - i should be marketable. it won't pencil out the same for others. itt will not be the best bet for everyone, but it is for me. ................................................................................................. did i read that post above correctly? "entrance in (two year) nursing programs, should be as difficult as entrance to md programs." an md is a doctorate. work more, to achieve less? is somebody going to be handing out doctorates at the adn and asn graduations? nurses are making goals, to make anything more difficult, and with difficulty being the main desired end? ...hmmmmm.... i don't see the advanatages here....is ocne the only one doing this?

LoveMyBugs, Hang in there! At least you are interviewing. I wonder how many people would love just to interview. Please keep sharing your job search experiences. I'm crossing my fingers for you. I hope you get your dream job. Do you think it might be helpful to have learned why he did want to look at you, provided he read your resume prior to arranging your interview, and he knew that your experience was low in the area he was looking for?

OK....Raya, So...you inquired, but did not receive reliable information about nursing school. You didn't realize it was not advisable to work full-time while in nursing school. You've learned the hard way, this not advisable and now you are wiser. Admisions may want to hear what your plan is to make sure work/personal life, does not interfere with school, if you start a new nursing program. Working part-time and going to nursing school can be too much for most nursing students. Working full-time and going to nursing school is....possibly insane. For working full-time, it sounds like you did darn good! A high five to you, Raya. I cannot say that I understand why programs aren't more up-front about the work loads... You know for sure that CUNY is out of the picture. If you work part-time, future instructors may feel you are not dedicated enough. Do you have a back-up if working part-time is too much? If you find a program, try to find students who are, or were in that program - to give you a better picture of what it might be like. Did you have financial aid? If so, remember to find out what kind of restrictions you may have with a new program. I think you'll be fine, Raya. Good luck.

kamaboko - Your post was very mean spirited. I'm sorry if I did anything to offend you. My previous post was more sincere than you might think. I may be the most unimportant person I have ever known. You really do sound like you are well connected, ...and much smarter than me. I believe you will go much farther in life than me. Sincerely. Those stats are important - to me. I couldn't find them, and I've been looking for months... see how "not smart" I am? If the stats were available, I believe they'd give an important description of the program. Nursing school, is nothing like pre-req's. I know from experience. Things just look a whole lot different, from the inside. Your posts are really mean spirited, kamaboko.

OK Raya, You failed to meet a criteria stated in writing by the program. OK. That likely happens to hundreds of 1st term students, every year. I don't doubt they are all, intelligent, wonderful people. Some will go on to make great nurses. Life goes on. Sounds like, you did not get "The Treatment". That's a good sign. Your challege may only be academic. If you get into a program again, now you know what to expect - ramp up the power on the academics. If you ever have time, and wonder what to study - consider whatever you feel was your weakest subjuct, as well as pharmacology, and med maths. Those are two of the bigest (but not only) challenges in nursing school. Have you met with your nursing advisor, or director? Your director and advisor must be used to dealing students failing, ... every single 1st term. Are you assessing, based on your grades, that you have no future with CUNY, or did CUNY tell you, "Raya, you have no future with CUNY."? If CUNY is professional, your advisors and director should have advice for you. Even if it is - "You may re-apply after X# years if you re-take xyz class(es) and go through the application procees again.", or "...be sure to contact the financial aid office on your way out." All non-CUNY programs are likely CUNY competitors. Why would CUNY encourage or help you to into such programs? I don't know about CUNY. However, if they project that anyone not in their program or already an RN is a sub-life form when you talk to them... Consider the sources of information. If all you want to do, is be a nurse. Don't give up. Let the negative projections of other roll off your back - like water on a duck's back or they may distract you from your goal. Your directors/advisors may still have helpful advice. Be sure to meet with them...Go to a guidance councelor at your school, if you can.

Raya, There may be two different kinds of "fails." 1) The "fail", where you really failed to meet a stated requirement in the nursing handbook or written requirements, and the nursing handbook states you cannot come back. 2) Then there is the "fail", where you didn't fail to meet any stated specific requirement. If one of your instructors had a "bad feeling about you" - she drummed up a new, previously not listed or heard of reasons to fail you - but claimed since you didn't fail any of the listed reasons, you can come back and try all over again. She may tell you, why she's failing you, but write a different reason in the paperwork. This is your clue it was personal, and not academic, and possibly not an ethical or lawful reason to fail you. When she writes one thing, but says another. So, there is a , "You failed but you get a Mulligan" -you can come back; and there is a "You failed, don't come back!". What did they tell you? What does your nursing handbook say? Did you talk to your advisor or director? There may be situations, where nurse educators will do something to help a student they like stay in the program - even if the student failed stated requirements horribly. Another student may do the same thing, and never be allowed back - simply because the nurse educator didn't like that student's look, or accent - do you get the picture? If this is the case in your program, no one is ever going to admit it. The nurse educator may be in trouble for discriminating. The student may lose their seat. There could be problems for the program. If this is the case, they wouldn't answer your questions. Silence in response to your question will tell you your answer...it may mean things were not even and fair. Some people get "passes" to leave their program for health, or other personal reasons from the program director. They may disappear for a year or some period of time, but then reappear. It may look like they failed and returned, but that is not the case. They never failed. They negotiated a break. If your nurse educators, say you failed and can't come back, there likely is nothing you can do. Let it go and move on. You have your pre-reqs. Did you go to your school academic advisor where you got your pre-reqs, and ask for a list of other nursing programs that take pre-reqs from that school. Try asking for an equivalancy sheet. (Not all advisors know what it is.) You can try your state board of nursing, and find out what programs they list as approved. You may also go to the NLNAC website - national acreditors, and see what programs are nationally acredited in your state. To find a new program, you have to start your research, all over again. Be sure to contact your financial aid holder. Don't lie about your transcripts. If you are having trouble imagining how to adress them in admissions, try seeing and academic advisor or a school councelor for ideas on how to adress it. People fail all of the time. Just try harder, if you get a next time, not to do it again.

LOL! ...and I'd have to be really smart, to want to do this? LOL. No one can see it now, but I am crying with laghter, and rolling on the floor...because I just know this one is true. .................................................................................................... So...how does this all translate to cost savings, and not being penny wise and pound foolish? Sometimes, I try to grasp how holding off the expense of training new grad RNs saves the healthcare system money. I wonder if there is a plot to wear-out as many experienced RN's as possible, while keeping mass numbers of new grads in a holding pattern. (If large numbers in the workforce are all completely worn out, such that they drop dead before retiring... that might save the expense of long-term care for them down the road and they won't have drawn on the nations social security resources so heavily.) As the experienced RN's make a mass exodus, then and only then, will the new grads be able to "make a landing"....all at once. If this ends in cost savings, it might be due to large numbers of patients dying, as an entire system backed mostly with new grad nurses hits the learning curve - all at the same time. After resulting class action claims break the bank for current healthcare providers and several go under, new healthcare providers will take over. Hopefully, the economic fallout will not result in another "recession", and patients won't be paying their bills with chickens. The good thing is, there are experienced experts to consult. America could check with the worlds' developing nations on creating a new, U.S. healthcare model based on a global healthcare model...wich allows for client payments in chicken curency - If large numbers of sick people die, the ratio of healthy people in the population will be higher. So...overall healthcare costs will go down...then I realize, "Well, that just sounds like hell. I'm not dead yet." So I stop studying. I say a prayer that all of hell will not break loose, and then I go to sleep. ................................................................................... If the US dolar does go under and a new curency name is to be chosen, I vote that the new US currency be called, the American chicken.