Woman refuses CS, charged with murder - page 3

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (03-11) 13:49 PST SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- A pregnant woman who allegedly ignored medical warnings to have a... Read More

  1. by   NICU_RNwantsFL
    someone please explain to me how women like this are always so @%#* fertile!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    she'll be back next year with another one in the oven.
    sorry if that sounds jaded, but so be it. :angryfire
    let's all pass the hat and pay for getting her tubes tied, eh?
  2. by   SmilingBluEyes
    But I have to ask: does anyone here know the WHOLE TURE STORY behind this headline?

    just wondering. It will be a case to watch, for sure. I still think murder charges are gonna be HARD to make stick, the way I have heard it told. IT will open a real raging debate about fetal versus maternal rights in health care then........who will take precendence? Right now, far as I know the mother has full determination over her body and what is done to it, even in pregnancy. I think it only right. NOT GOOD or MORAL, necessarily, but unless they could have her declared incompetent, what could they do? It would have been a case of assault to FORCE a csection on her.

    MURDER? don't think so----possibly manslaughter....I can see that. But then, I DO NOT KNOW THE WHOLE STORY, EITHER and already I see a whole lot of SPECULATION, including here on our boards. (e.g. " I read this or heard that"). I will watch this one; it will be a case to keep an eye on as an OB nurse and woman, but I also will reserve hard judgment unless and until or IF I know all the TRUE facts.
  3. by   mona b RN
    Quote from longtermcarern
    purple mania, I have often wondered the same thing, in 1977 I gave birth to a stillborn baby girl after my water broke 36 hours before. The doctor's nurse was also in labor and she wore the hospitals only fetal monitor, she stayed in the hospital the whole time. I didn't have insurance and the doctor sent me home to wait it out. during the first 32 hours the baby kicked then there was nothing. My next OB-GYN stated it was murder but no one would do anything about it.
    longtermcarern,

    I know what you went through. A very similar situation happened to me in 1983. I was in labor for many hours when all of a sudden no one could find the fetal heart sounds. The baby died(I won't go into the details) and I literally begged for a c-section. They wouldn't give me a section though. I'm guessing they thought that since the baby could be safely delivered vaginally then why traumatize me even further. Of course I wans't this level headed when it was actually happening. I can still see the Doc's face as I was begging him for a c-section. Hindsight being 20/20, I guess I am glad he didn't do the c-section. My God, I thought I was losing my mind during that labor, I just couldn't believe that the baby was dead.

    Full term 7lbs15oz beautiful baby boy we proudly named Michael Joseph. :angel2:

    mona
  4. by   USC2001
    What I don't understand is why did she go to three different hospitals for decreased fetal movement if she didn't want anything done about it? If you are going to refuse medical attention then don't go to the hospital!
  5. by   Missyb32641
    A person can be charged with two counts of assult for harming a pregnant woman. A mother can be inprisoned for doing drugs while pregnant then why can't a woman be charged with murder for not having a life saving procedure especially if the babies are viable?
  6. by   mtnmom
    Quote from USC2001
    What I don't understand is why did she go to three different hospitals for decreased fetal movement if she didn't want anything done about it? If you are going to refuse medical attention then don't go to the hospital!
    This is only conjecture on my part, but if she already had a history of instability/mental illness, she obviously had problems dealing with reality. Maybe she was hoping that someone would finally tell her the baby was OK and no section was needed, or do something to make it OK. As for the "breastbone to pubic bone" incision story, maybe her perception was so distorted due to drugs or mental illness that is what she thought someone told her!!! Or maybe she thought a bigger incision was needed to get 2 babies out.

    Bottom line, we may never know what she was thinking - she may not even know. She sounds like someone so irrational that they are incapable of any sort of logical thinking. Whether that's due to mental illness, alcohol, drugs or a combination it's hard to say.

    As much as my heart would like her tried for murder, my head tells me that a murder charge probably won't stick. Any charge that is made will probably cop a guilty by reason of insanity plea.

    By the way, I did read where the surviving twin tested pos. for cocaine and alcohol, also that she had assaulted another of her children several years ago and gotten an endangerment charge from that one.

    It is a sad, sad story...but no sadder than the woman who came in last week and delivered a stillborn, perfectly formed baby boy of about 36 weeks gestation...who would probably have delivered somewhat OK had she not had a total abruption. Of course that baby tested positive for cocaine, and mom had not one iota of prenatal care.

    The only way I can deal with it all is to pray for all of their kind ... it might be Pollyanna to some but at least it gives me a little solace.
  7. by   Dialyzin' Dar
    ... why wasn't she being followed up as a high-risk pregnancy? Wasn't she taking some sort of medication?

    Personally, I think somebody like that shouldn't be allowed to keep a baby. We have a similar situation where I live-- it's an elderly/disabled housing complex. We have a number of mentally disabled young people living here, including a woman who has a baby every other year. They keep taking the babies away because she's not well enough to be a mother-- but you'd think they'd do something so she doesn't keep having all those babies! Having been forced to give up four babies can't be very good for her mental health, either! In fact, that's probably WHY she keeps getting pregnant in the first place-- she's probably thinking, "Maybe they'll let me keep THIS one!"
  8. by   jkaee
    I didn't read thru all the posts, so I don't know if this was mentioned or not. I heard on the news today that DHS was already "following" this woman because she punched her young daughter in a grocery store. Apparently this little girl took a candy bar and started eating it and the woman just off and whaled her. The police were called and Social services "followed up."


    When are the states going to wake up and realize we need to do something with these poor children that are stuck in these homes with unstable parents? I'm sick of hearing about abused and neglected children that "fall through the cracks" of the system. What can we do to help?
  9. by   gypsyatheart
    I haven't read all of the news about this woman and this situation,but, it seems likely that she had little to no prenatal care, which would be right in line with someone with a mental disability.

    As for "doing something" about these people w/disabilities having babies....what do you suggest we do? Strap them down and forcibly sterilize them? I don't think so....if you ask me it is these folks w/mental disabilities that have "fallen through the cracks". If they end up having children, well, they fall through the cracks as well. Sadly, there aren't anywhere near enough foster homes for placement of the many, many children out there that need them; much less experienced, trained individuals to deal with the issues many of these kids have; addicted babies, abused children, developmental delays, behavior issues etc.
    Social Services are hugely overwhelmed with too many kids and not enough/burned out staff (sound familiar?). It used to amaze me the babies that would end up going home w/unfit parents or drug addict moms....now I just shake my head in frustration. We expect DD children, unstable kids, kids w/behavioral problems to "deal" w/society, make the right choices, do the "right" thing....how can they, when they themselves never received any help or guidance or appropriate placement.... I think it's very sad, myself.

    Personally, I think our society has sooo many mis-placed values....and then we wonder when we hear stories like this. Why should we be surprised? Our society is what we have created.




    Quote from Dialyzin' Dar
    ... why wasn't she being followed up as a high-risk pregnancy? Wasn't she taking some sort of medication?

    Personally, I think somebody like that shouldn't be allowed to keep a baby. We have a similar situation where I live-- it's an elderly/disabled housing complex. We have a number of mentally disabled young people living here, including a woman who has a baby every other year. They keep taking the babies away because she's not well enough to be a mother-- but you'd think they'd do something so she doesn't keep having all those babies! Having been forced to give up four babies can't be very good for her mental health, either! In fact, that's probably WHY she keeps getting pregnant in the first place-- she's probably thinking, "Maybe they'll let me keep THIS one!"
  10. by   gingerzoe
    I have a question for the board. Is this any different than the woman who takes fertility drugs and becomes pregnant and has six embroys and the doctors tell her that if she gets rid of a couple the others will have a better chance. Is this murder?
  11. by   jkaee
    Quote from moondancer

    Personally, I think our society has sooo many mis-placed values....and then we wonder when we hear stories like this. Why should we be surprised? Our society is what we have created.


    I'll agree with you 100% there, moondancer. But just as we can't "force" sterilization, we can't force treatment for mental illness, either. Why do we have to wait for something to happen before we start to act? The children are the ones that get the short end over and over again. I realize we don't have enough willing and capable foster parents. I don't know the answer, either, as to what we as a society can do for these children. But it seems that the very old and the very young get forgotten in this society, and it makes me so mad to see that happen.

    I'll tell you what, if a Presidential candidate came along and vowed to distribute more money to the care of the neglected and/or abused young and old, I'd vote for him.


    Jennifer
  12. by   gypsyatheart
    I totally agree with you jkaee. I wish I knew the answer, also. I really believe if our (as in societies) priorities were a little straighter, then the elderly, the young and the incompetent/vulnerable of our world would be valued and card for. I would love to see a candidate come along and pledge funding for these issues. As it is now, funding to these vital areas has been drastically cut.
  13. by   kristyTX
    Has anyone seen a picture of this woman? I saw a picture of her on AOL and she did not have to worry about a possible scar to make her look bad, she already did. She looked horrible. I think her prior child endangerment charge for an older child should have been a warning of things to come.

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