The Circumcision Discussion - page 63

I know this can be a HUGE debate, and I'm not looking to start any arguments. I was just wondering as you are OB nurses. I'm expecting a boy in July and not sure if we should circ. or not. My... Read More

  1. Visit  secretspectrum profile page
    0
    Yes, it sure seems like it would make sense for the parents to at least be there to comfort the baby during painful procedures. I think the amount of siblings that would be done would decrease.
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  3. Visit  BlueRidgeHomeRN profile page
    0
    Quote from aislstarfish
    has it occurred to anyone that the countries that circumcise their children more often also have more money, education and access to prophylactics.. and that that could be the reason hiv is less prevalent????

    i mean, come on... a foreskin is not going to increase the probability of getting hiv. that is absolutely ridiculous! it's a piece of skin, that's supposed to be there. hiv is transmitted through bodily fluids, not foreskins, hahah.
    #1--these studies compared men in the same poor countries, so your wealth=better education and health is all washed up and lacking data.

    #2--obviously the fluids and perhaps microtears in the foreskin accumulate fluids and hold them for ready transmission.

    feel free to discuss the merits of circumsion in developed countries, but don't dismiss data because you feel that this procedure is unnecessary, painful, barbaric, or whatever. anything that reduces hiv needs to be considered.
  4. Visit  secretspectrum profile page
    1
    Male Circumcision Ineffective in HIV Battle According to New Future HIV Therapy Report

    Promoting male circumcision in Africa is risky and dangerous and could lead to more HIV infections, warns a new paper published today in the May issue of Future HIV Therapy. Promoting circumcision will drain millions, possibly billions, of dollars away from more effective prevention strategies, and cause tens of thousands of infections and other surgical complications.

    West Lafayette, IN (PRWEB) May 6, 2008 -- Promoting male circumcision in Africa is risky and dangerous and could lead to more HIV infections, warns a new paper published in the May issue of Future HIV Therapy.

    Lead author Dr. Lawrence Green says, "Having served on both the US Preventive Services Task Force and the Community Preventive Services Task Force, which do systematic reviews of research to arrive at government-supported evidence-based guidelines for practice, I believe the African studies on the basis of which some are promoting circumcision as HIV prevention would be classified at best as 'insufficient evidence’ by both panels."
    "Promoting circumcision will drain millions, possibly billions, of dollars away from more effective prevention strategies," cautions co-author John Travis, MD, "and cause tens of thousands of infections and other surgical complications, further straining an already overwhelmed healthcare system and undermining the current ABC (abstinence, be faithful, and use condoms) campaigns by creating a false sense of immunity and increasing risk-taking behaviors. African males are already lining up to be circumcised, believing that they will no longer need to wear condoms, and this is a serious concern."

    Full article: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/05/prweb916104.htm
    Last edit by Elvish on Jul 14, '08 : Reason: TOS
    Southernurse likes this.
  5. Visit  Aislstarfish profile page
    1
    Quote from blueridgehomern
    #1--these studies compared men in the same poor countries, so your wealth=better education and health is all washed up and lacking data.

    #2--obviously the fluids and perhaps microtears in the foreskin accumulate fluids and hold them for ready transmission.

    feel free to discuss the merits of circumsion in developed countries, but don't dismiss data because you feel that this procedure is unnecessary, painful, barbaric, or whatever. anything that reduces hiv needs to be considered.

    blueridge, you are very right.. i apologize for being so dismissive in my post. i do feel circumcision is unnecessary, painful and a bit barbaric, but.. that does not discredit any data that may have been found in regards to hiv. however, i have to say that it still seems a bit silly to me that having a foreskin alone could increase the rate of hiv. i do understand your point about the foreskin trapping fluid though. impo, i believe that increased hiv transmission has to do with behavior, not circumcision. however, i will not dismiss the data just because of how i feel about the situation and that there may be other factors involved. thank you for pointing that out to me
    BlueRidgeHomeRN likes this.
  6. Visit  Elvish profile page
    2
    Personal feelings about circ aside, my fear is that any study relating it to a drop in HIV incidence will equate to an increase in risky behaviors. "I can do whatever I want, I'm circumcised."

    Also, I am concerned that we are talking about reducing risk of HIV in countries whose gov'ts cannot even ensure that people have clean drinking water. And we are going to encourage (and trust) them to perform surgery using sterile technique on a massive scale? I just do not see it being all it's been made out.

    Not to mention that the study had some serious design flaws to begin with.
    Ayvah and Aislstarfish like this.
  7. Visit  suanna profile page
    8
    I would imagine the incidence of HIV would drop dramatically if all little boys would have thier entire penises surgicaly removed. We would have to work out some other solution for procreation but if getting rid of HIV is your only goal- snip away. Personally, I resent the fact that my parents were pressured into agreeing to having an unnecessary surgical amputation performed on me to meet some obscure societal norm.(I'm Baptist- no Mohel involved). I don't remember having a foreskin but I want it back! I'm glad the need for this barbaric practice starting to be reconsidered. Cutting off the parts of the body that tend to harbor infection is a poor alternative to hygiene education.
    RN BSN 2009, crysobrn, Apgar10, and 5 others like this.
  8. Visit  Aislstarfish profile page
    0
    Quote from suanna
    I would imagine the incidence of HIV would drop dramatically if all little boys would have thier entire penises surgicaly removed. We would have to work out some other solution for procreation but if getting rid of HIV is your only goal- snip away. Personally, I resent the fact that my parents were pressured into agreeing to having an unnecessary surgical amputation performed on me to meet some obscure societal norm.(I'm Baptist- no Mohel involved). I don't remember having a foreskin but I want it back! I'm glad the need for this barbaric practice starting to be reconsidered. Cutting off the parts of the body that tend to harbor infection is a poor alternative to hygiene education.
    :yeahthat: YES! I agree!
  9. Visit  BlueRidgeHomeRN profile page
    0
    Quote from aislstarfish
    however, i will not dismiss the data just because of how i feel about the situation and that there may be other factors involved. thank you for pointing that out to me
    and i realize my opinion on this matter is just that, an opinion! i might be way off base, and know that being circ'd got my sons a lot of stares at the (naked) baby pools in europe.

    i freely admit that my hygiene issues are colored by both the biblical (am catholic, not jewish, but hear it all the same) and the personal "ick" factor from the previously mentioned old boyfriend (who had poor hygiene overall).

    i defer the decision to parents who make an informed choice....but again state my support for the plasti-bell over all other procedures if the choice is made to circ.
    Last edit by BlueRidgeHomeRN on Jul 15, '08 : Reason: clarification
  10. Visit  Spidey's mom profile page
    1
    Quote from suanna
    I would imagine the incidence of HIV would drop dramatically if all little boys would have thier entire penises surgicaly removed. We would have to work out some other solution for procreation but if getting rid of HIV is your only goal- snip away. Personally, I resent the fact that my parents were pressured into agreeing to having an unnecessary surgical amputation performed on me to meet some obscure societal norm.(I'm Baptist- no Mohel involved). I don't remember having a foreskin but I want it back! I'm glad the need for this barbaric practice starting to be reconsidered. Cutting off the parts of the body that tend to harbor infection is a poor alternative to hygiene education.

    In either this circ thread or one of the many ones here I mentioned that I asked my two adult sons what they thought of circumcision and would they rather I had been able to persuade their dad into NOT doing it and both were appalled!! They both said they would be very unhappy with me if they were not circ'd.

    I think it has to do with where you grow up - there was only one boy not circ'd here and he got teased.

    If it was the reverse, they would probably change their mind. Or not.

    But my adult sons are glad they were circ'd. The don't want their foreskins back.

    I'll have to wait on the 6 year old - he has no idea yet.


    steph
    Last edit by Spidey's mom on Jul 15, '08
    BlueRidgeHomeRN likes this.
  11. Visit  Elvish profile page
    1
    My European friends are, across the board, appalled that this is even thought about, much less practiced here.

    Anecdotally, from a Finnish friend: "We believe the prepuce is there for a reason and we leave the damn thing alone." (her words)

    From a German friend: (wrinkles her nose) "Why do you all do that?"
    (They ask me about my job, and I tell them. I don't go around bringing it up to everyone I know.)
    Aislstarfish likes this.
  12. Visit  Belinda-wales profile page
    4
    I am glad to say my boys have all their boby parts that they were born with one day the USA will wake up and the truth will be out the population (who I do not blaim) have been brain washed into circs because it makes money last year 4.1 million babies were born in the usa - say half were boys and 90% get circ @ 120$ approx a snip got work it out - circ has nothing to do with anything except the cash made from it. Every single year this money is made imagine the loss in revinue if circ stopped. The truth is it is a violation in the human rights of a child - but nothing is done about it.
    Calzonan RN, RNmama05, Thanet, and 1 other like this.
  13. Visit  CEG profile page
    2
    Quote from Belinda-wales
    I am glad to say my boys have all their boby parts that they were born with one day the USA will wake up and the truth will be out the population (who I do not blaim) have been brain washed into circs because it makes money last year 4.1 million babies were born in the usa - say half were boys and 90% get circ @ 120$ approx a snip got work it out - circ has nothing to do with anything except the cash made from it. Every single year this money is made imagine the loss in revinue if circ stopped. The truth is it is a violation in the human rights of a child - but nothing is done about it.
    ITA, but try ~$400 a snip. My son also has all his body parts- thank goodness my British ex-pat friend was pregnant with a boy at the same time I was and we talked about it.
    Thanet and Aislstarfish like this.
  14. Visit  suanna profile page
    1
    Quote from Spidey's mom
    ..... They both said they would be very unhappy with me if they were not circ'd.

    I think it has to do with where you grow up - there was only one boy not circ'd here and he got teased.

    If it was the reverse, they would probably change their mind. Or not.

    But my adult sons are glad they were circ'd. The don't want their foreskins back.

    I'll have to wait on the 6 year old - he has no idea yet.


    steph
    Admittedly there was only one boy not circ'd in my gym class in high school and the other kids made his life a living hell but it still dosen't change the fact that I wish medical society/society in general would not have pressured my parents and EVERYONE elses parents to get thier little boys' members trimmed.
    58flyer likes this.


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