My L&D misadventure

Specialties Ob/Gyn

Published

Specializes in L&D, OBED, NICU, Lactation.

Here's my story. I'm a neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) nurse, a certified lactation counselor, and a father of two beautiful children. I love what I do. I've done some traveling and worked with some amazing people in some great hospitals. It's all been a great experience.

For 18 months now I have been trying to expand my practice and transfer into Labor and Delivery prior to (hopefully..applications are in, fingers crossed) starting a nurse-midwife program in Spring 2010.

At this point here are my statistics:

4 states | 18 applications | 3 calls (2 of which were "mistakes") | 1 interview

Let me point out that for two facilities, I submitted two applications to each one with the same resume. One was me, (my name) RN and the other was (female version of my name) RN...can you guess what happened? Apparently (female version of my name) would have made a great candidate, thus the "mistakes" in the phone calls.

In April of this year I interviewed with a great teaching facility in the major city near my home. The interview went great. Come to find out, one of the girls that works in the L&D unit at my current facility was working at that other place at the time. The manager went around taking a poll about hiring a male nurse. Since more than 50% of the staff said "No", well you get the idea. Funny thing about this, the former nurse manager (McRae, 2003) of that facility published a study in which the majority of patients were FINE with having a male nurse, caring more about competency and professionalism. The weak links in the study, those who showed the most negative perception about men in OB nursing were nurse managers and clinical educators.

I had a long talk with someone near and dear to me whose opinion I value dearly about this and she was playing devil's advocate trying to throw every reason in the book why I may not have gotten calls back or why places might want to hire a guy. She and others that I have talked to have questioned my motives for wanting to work in such an area. Quoting from the article The Hidden Barrier: Gender Bias Fact or Fiction? by Gayle Cude and Karen Winfrey (2007).."I feel their questioning of my professional motives based on my gender is as inappropriate as would be their questioning my motives based on race or religion."

AWHONN (Association of Women's Health, Obstetric, and Neonatal Nurses) has a position statement entitled Gender Bias as a Factor for Nursing Positions in Women's Health, Obstetric and Neonatal Nursing. Some excerpts include

  • "AWHONN supports that nurses, regardless of gender, should be employed in women's health, obstetric and neonatal nursing based on their ability to provide such care to their clients."
  • Gender is not a qualification requirement to practice as a nurse, and gender discrimination in employment is unlawful.
  • In addition to legal requirements barring discrimination, there is no evidence that female nurses provide superior care to male nurses in the areas of women's health, obstetric or neonatal nursing.

I'm frustrated at this point as I am being stifled in my career development based on my gender and because of other people's antiquated stereotypes.

Any suggestions?

References

http://www.awhonn.org/awhonn/binary.content.do?name=Resources/Documents/pdf/5H4c_PS_Gender05.pdf

Cude, G., & Winfrey, K. (2007). The hidden barrier: gender bias: fact or fiction? Nursing for Women's Health, 11(3), 254-265.

McRae, M. J. (2003). Men in obstetrical nursing: perceptions of the role. MCN: The American Journal of Maternal Child Nursing, 28(3), 167-173.

I work with a male CNM who the patients love. I don't have much insight to add to your discussion. Just wanted to let you know I have a female friend with a male name- her mom gave her that name so she wouldn't be discriminated against. She has had many "mistake" phone calls throughout the course of her life (works in business). So it happens everywhere and to both genders, not that that makes it okay. Good luck.

In my area it is known that they won't hire a male on mother baby as they are afraid of legal problems or excess cost. That is the explanation touted anyway. That is in this area, they feel that a male nurse would have to be accompanied by a female to do exams on mom.

As far as NICU never seen a male there but I suspect that would be ok. It seems to be the mom issue that is the problem. Instructors have even talked about this and I thought it sounded like discrimination but evidently it is known that that is the way it is here. OF COURSE, I am in a rural area.

Personally I think its great to have more men in this area.

Specializes in L&D, OBED, NICU, Lactation.
In my area it is known that they won't hire a male on mother baby as they are afraid of legal problems or excess cost. That is the explanation touted anyway. That is in this area, they feel that a male nurse would have to be accompanied by a female to do exams on mom.

As far as NICU never seen a male there but I suspect that would be ok. It seems to be the mom issue that is the problem. Instructors have even talked about this and I thought it sounded like discrimination but evidently it is known that that is the way it is here. OF COURSE, I am in a rural area.

Personally I think its great to have more men in this area.

NICU has a few guys. I have worked with a couple and they have all been awesome. The reasons your hospital gives are not backed up by fact, well if they are, I haven't seen it and I just completed a research project on men in OB nursing. There was a hospital in WV that was using that mindset and they lost in the WV Supreme Court for not hiring a qualified male based on gender. See Slivka vs Camden-Clark Memorial Hospital at http://www.state.wv.us/WVSCA/docs/spring04/31404.htm

Specializes in L&D, OBED, NICU, Lactation.
I work with a male CNM who the patients love. I don't have much insight to add to your discussion. Just wanted to let you know I have a female friend with a male name- her mom gave her that name so she wouldn't be discriminated against. She has had many "mistake" phone calls throughout the course of her life (works in business). So it happens everywhere and to both genders, not that that makes it okay. Good luck.

The "mistake" was that I caught them on the fact that they called the female name back and not the male, with the same resume, at least that was what they claimed. Of course, knowing that I wouldn't want to work for them now anyway.

Specializes in Ante-Intra-Postpartum, Post Gyne.

It is sexual discrimination and illegal not to hire some one based on sexual orientation. If you can prove it you may have case.

Specializes in Med/Surg, Ortho, ASC.

There's an irony here that blows my mind.....while there are certainly more female OB/GYN's than in the past, I would guess that the majority are still men. How is it that a mother wouldn't "accept" a male nurse/nurse-midwife yet is comfortable with (and likely expects to have) a male MD?

I work with a male nurse who goes out of his way to allow his female patients a choice as to whether he performs peri-care, EKG's, etc. or whether he brings in a female co-worker to perform initimate nursing tasks. While I admire the low-key way that he accomplishes this, I have never thought that he should have to.

I hope your "catching" those two facilities in their error has an impact on their thought processes...probably not, tho:crying2:

Specializes in L&D, OBED, NICU, Lactation.
There's an irony here that blows my mind.....while there are certainly more female OB/GYN's than in the past, I would guess that the majority are still men. How is it that a mother wouldn't "accept" a male nurse/nurse-midwife yet is comfortable with (and likely expects to have) a male MD?

I work with a male nurse who goes out of his way to allow his female patients a choice as to whether he performs peri-care, EKG's, etc. or whether he brings in a female co-worker to perform initimate nursing tasks. While I admire the low-key way that he accomplishes this, I have never thought that he should have to.

I hope your "catching" those two facilities in their error has an impact on their thought processes...probably not, tho:crying2:

I don't really understand the male MD but no male nurse thing. I have had some of my friends tell me that it's because the MD isn't there all that much and that you can choose him. Though in reality, at least over the course of time, the male OB spends far more time with the woman doing more intimate procedures than a male (or any other) nurse would in the course of a single labor. There is definitely a stigma toward male RNs/CNMs that doesn't exist for male OBs.

And my "catching" them has not changed their hiring procedures in the slightest.

It is sexual discrimination and illegal not to hire some one based on sexual orientation. If you can prove it you may have case.

Yes, it is gender discrimination, but the problem is that I wouldn't want to work for those companies now, even if I won a case against them.

Specializes in Foot Care.

And my "catching" them has not changed their hiring procedures in the slightest.

Yes, it is gender discrimination, but the problem is that I wouldn't want to work for those companies now, even if I won a case against them.

I respect the fact that you are a competent professional. Your gender wouldn't be a problem for me. I would welcome gender diversity among my female-only Mother-Baby Unit colleagues. Would my nurse-manager hire you? I don't know.

Having worked on a female-nurses-only unit for the past decade or so, I notice quite a lot of clique-ish politically (as in "office politics") motivated behaviour that I never noticed on units where I trained where male nurses were better represented in the staff pool.

Maybe a gender bias lawsuit would wake people up to the fact that there are males who want to work in the OBS-GYN specialty, just as there are females who want to work in urology. The old biases don't work anymore. Patients here have to sign a release form accepting the fact that they will receive care by medical staff of either gender, and I don't see why that form cannot encompass nursing care too. The focus should be on the nurse's ability to provide professional nursing care, not whether the nurse has a member or a lady parts.

Specializes in Foot Care.

Just a quick addendum:

If you are already employed in an institution and requested a transfer to Mother-Baby or Obstetrics, perhaps this is an issue that the union (if you belong to one) would address on your behalf. Certainly with my employer, the competition process is dictated by union rules, and a position would be given to the individual with the seniority and credentials that meet the unit's needs the best.

Specializes in ICU/CCU.

I'm pretty sure that you are being discriminated against based on your gender. This is illegal, but you may have a problem proving it. I agree with ToxoplasmaGandhi that your best bet would be to apply for a transfer to L&D at the hospital where you already work and then get help from the union if the hospital tries to keep you out of the job.

That said, I am one of those women that would not want to have a male L&D or postpartum nurse. I will not even see a male ObGyn doctor. The two times that I have seen male doctors were the most horrific and unpleasant interactions of my life. In my hospital more than 90% of the ObGyn docs are women, and this year's new interns are 100% female.

So, although I completely respect and support your right to be an L&D nurse, I have to say that I would be one of those patients who would request another (female) nurse, irrational as that my sound to you.

Good luck. I hope you don't encounter too many patients like me!

What states are you looking in? We have a male nurse in our L&D unit!

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