My L&D misadventure

[labordude]

Here's my story. I'm a neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) nurse, a certified lactation counselor, and a father of two beautiful children. I love what I do. I've done some traveling and worked with some amazing people in some great hospitals. It's all been a great experience.

For 18 months now I have been trying to expand my practice and transfer into Labor and Delivery prior to (hopefully..applications are in, fingers crossed) starting a nurse-midwife program in Spring 2010.

At this point here are my statistics:

4 states | 18 applications | 3 calls (2 of which were "mistakes") | 1 interview

Let me point out that for two facilities, I submitted two applications to each one with the same resume. One was me, (my name) RN and the other was (female version of my name) RN...can you guess what happened? Apparently (female version of my name) would have made a great candidate, thus the "mistakes" in the phone calls.

In April of this year I interviewed with a great teaching facility in the major city near my home. The interview went great. Come to find out, one of the girls that works in the L&D unit at my current facility was working at that other place at the time. The manager went around taking a poll about hiring a male nurse. Since more than 50% of the staff said "No", well you get the idea. Funny thing about this, the former nurse manager (McRae, 2003) of that facility published a study in which the majority of patients were FINE with having a male nurse, caring more about competency and professionalism. The weak links in the study, those who showed the most negative perception about men in OB nursing were nurse managers and clinical educators.

I had a long talk with someone near and dear to me whose opinion I value dearly about this and she was playing devil's advocate trying to throw every reason in the book why I may not have gotten calls back or why places might want to hire a guy. She and others that I have talked to have questioned my motives for wanting to work in such an area. Quoting from the article The Hidden Barrier: Gender Bias Fact or Fiction? by Gayle Cude and Karen Winfrey (2007).."I feel their questioning of my professional motives based on my gender is as inappropriate as would be their questioning my motives based on race or religion."

AWHONN (Association of Women's Health, Obstetric, and Neonatal Nurses) has a position statement entitled Gender Bias as a Factor for Nursing Positions in Women's Health, Obstetric and Neonatal Nursing. Some excerpts include

• "AWHONN supports that nurses, regardless of gender, should be employed in women's health, obstetric and neonatal nursing based on their ability to provide such care to their clients."
  
• Gender is not a qualification requirement to practice as a nurse, and gender discrimination in employment is unlawful.
  
• In addition to legal requirements barring discrimination, there is no evidence that female nurses provide superior care to male nurses in the areas of women's health, obstetric or neonatal nursing.
  

I'm frustrated at this point as I am being stifled in my career development based on my gender and because of other people's antiquated stereotypes.

Any suggestions?

References

http://www.awhonn.org/awhonn/binary.content.do?name=Resources/Documents/pdf/5H4c_PS_Gender05.pdf

Cude, G., & Winfrey, K. (2007). The hidden barrier: gender bias: fact or fiction? Nursing for Women's Health, 11(3), 254-265.

McRae, M. J. (2003). Men in obstetrical nursing: perceptions of the role. MCN: The American Journal of Maternal Child Nursing, 28(3), 167-173.

[Soyrizo]

I am just a humble pre-nursing student perusing this forum, but I wanted to say as a mother who's had 3 babies that gender of an L+D nurse doesn't bother me. I would've been fine with a male nurse, because at the point it felt like the whole wide world was having viewing access to my body. As long as they were caring and had small hands, I didn't care, I just wanted to have the baby.

That being said, I can understand the hesitancy of hiring a male nurse under certain conditions, for instance if there is a large Muslim population.

Good luck. :wink2:

[labordude, BSN, RN]

"I do believe that you are being discriminated against, but I don't agree that males should be hired for L&D or Mother baby. "

I don't understand how one person can hold those two conflicting thoughts.

Under the premise that OB patients should be able to dictate male vs. female nurse, I would ask: what does the male prostatectomy patient deserve? The male cystoscopy patient? Or penile implant patient? Nurses are professional caregivers, just as MD's are. I do not choose a primary care physician or surgeon based upon his/her gender; therefore I do not believe that I need/require a choice my nurse.

The thought of my husband being "uncomfortable" because my caregiver is a male is just wrong, wrong, wrong. On so many levels.

I am just a humble pre-nursing student perusing this forum, but I wanted to say as a mother who's had 3 babies that gender of an L+D nurse doesn't bother me. I would've been fine with a male nurse, because at the point it felt like the whole wide world was having viewing access to my body. As long as they were caring and had small hands, I didn't care, I just wanted to have the baby.

That being said, I can understand the hesitancy of hiring a male nurse under certain conditions, for instance if there is a large Muslim population.

Good luck. :wink2:

roser13, thanks for the comments. I have two children and I never would have presumed to say anything about the care provider who delivered them or cared for her. As long as they were competent, which is something that has nothing to do with gender, a unicorn could have delivered my kiddos!

Soyrizo,

Your sentiments about not caring at that point in time have been echoed by many women I have spoken to. I do agree that under certain conditions hiring a male would not be desirable, though that would also apply to hiring males into the OB role. In the hospital I work in as well as where I interviewed, the Muslim population is small and there are far more male OBs than females. I think I will be enlisting their support as well!

[BabyCatchr, ADN, ASN, RN]

I personally had a young male gyn doctor (not nurse) assault me on the table when there was nobody else present a few years ago. It was horrific and nothing was done about it, even after I brought it to the hospital chief in person and in writing. I am certain there are women who fear this and for that reason would rather have a female. I know there are wonderful male nurses out there, but this is just a thought that may be going through some women's minds.

[JaneyW]

I have been an L&D nurse for seven years in Southern California. Although I have never worked with a male nurse, I have heard that they are out there in my region. I am a member of AWHONN and there have been men at both the conventions I have attended--not many, but they exist! During the last convention, I went to two seminars led by male CNMs. Both were either retired or active military. Both had several years of L&D nursing under their belt before getting their CNM, but this experience was in the military. Is that a viable alternative for you?

How I would feel about a male L&D nurse would probably have to do with your competence and professionalism. Having said that, I am a very strong willed and not shy person who is comfortable speaking up on my own behalf. In my experience as an OB nurse, the populations I have served are not that way either due to age (young), illness, culture or religion. In fact, I have had a handful of patients who didn't even want their husbands in the room. I know you would never be able to care for a Muslim woman. I also really get what another poster said about small units having trouble accommodating pt choice. Your best bet for employment would have to be a large hospital with many nurses scheduled each shift. We must think of your right to not be discriminated against and also the rights of a patient to be treated with sensitivity. That is a lot to put on an already stressed and overworked manager's plate.

There is no easy answer to your dilemma. I hope you find someplace to practice and gain the experience you will need for your CNM. I feel we need good nurses in OB and women's health regardless of their gender, but the reality is that you will have a tougher row to hoe. Also, please don't take this the wrong way, but you can spout off research and court cases and such all you want--I get that they are important. However, it will all come down to how you come across as a person to both the manager and your patients. Of course to have that chance you need to get an interview! I hear your frustration and I am so sorry you are having this difficulty. Keep at it and you will get to where you need to be.

[labordude, BSN, RN]

I have been an L&D nurse for seven years in Southern California. Although I have never worked with a male nurse, I have heard that they are out there in my region. I am a member of AWHONN and there have been men at both the conventions I have attended--not many, but they exist! During the last convention, I went to two seminars led by male CNMs. Both were either retired or active military. Both had several years of L&D nursing under their belt before getting their CNM, but this experience was in the military. Is that a viable alternative for you?

How I would feel about a male L&D nurse would probably have to do with your competence and professionalism. Having said that, I am a very strong willed and not shy person who is comfortable speaking up on my own behalf. In my experience as an OB nurse, the populations I have served are not that way either due to age (young), illness, culture or religion. In fact, I have had a handful of patients who didn't even want their husbands in the room. I know you would never be able to care for a Muslim woman. I also really get what another poster said about small units having trouble accommodating pt choice. Your best bet for employment would have to be a large hospital with many nurses scheduled each shift. We must think of your right to not be discriminated against and also the rights of a patient to be treated with sensitivity. That is a lot to put on an already stressed and overworked manager's plate.

There is no easy answer to your dilemma. I hope you find someplace to practice and gain the experience you will need for your CNM. I feel we need good nurses in OB and women's health regardless of their gender, but the reality is that you will have a tougher row to hoe. Also, please don't take this the wrong way, but you can spout off research and court cases and such all you want--I get that they are important. However, it will all come down to how you come across as a person to both the manager and your patients. Of course to have that chance you need to get an interview! I hear your frustration and I am so sorry you are having this difficulty. Keep at it and you will get to where you need to be.

Thanks for your comments.

Were you at the most recent AWHONN convention? Tom Johnston, who is a male CNM in the military spoke at that one. He is someone I have been in contact with, as he has gone through similar experiences. He is also a lactation consultant and speaks for them regularly. Great guy.

I completely understand the research and court cases mean nothing to a manager, they only lend credence should I ever pursue a discrimination case. In my defense, I've been offered every other nursing position I've ever applied for in multiple specialties, in phone and in person, so I am fairly comfortable with my ability to interview well. I have put myself into a much better position to get hired into L&D now, especially because I am working in a NICU attached to an extremely busy birthing unit. I am always attending the deliveries and the staff is getting to know me so that by the time I apply for transfer, I should have a much better chance of being hired.