Philippine Board of Nursing to stop Second Coursers from taking up Nursing

suzanne4, RN · Jul 22, 2008

The Program in the Philippines has never been 5 years for nursing. It has always been 4 years until now. I do not know where you obtained this information but it is wrong.
The new course starting in June is 5 years, My course was 4 years and all the other nurses I know also did a 4 year course.

Sorry, but when I went to school, all of the programs in your country were five years before anyone got their license. All of the Filipinos that I worked with when I was just starting out went for a full five years.

And that is also the time that the excellent reputation was established. But is not the same any longer.

suzanne4, RN · Jul 22, 2008

they dont have the right to stop because education is a privileged of every Filipino. What they should do is to really monitor the schools making sure that nursing student meet the academic requirement like set up a higher quota to be able o put to the next level. and in the board exam, change the passing policy: no grade below 60 but with an average of 75. Make it no grade below 75 and an average of 83%. something like that. because it is in every Filipino the privilege to study as long as he can afford the financial requirements.

Sorry, but that is not true. When you have programs that have not had one graduate pass the NLE, then things need to be corrected. It does not matter if one wants to study, but if there is no work for them and no way for them to get work in another country, then something needs to be done about it.

When training is not meeting the standards in other countries, then you need to fix it.

sally22 · Jul 23, 2008

suzanne4"Sorry, but that is not true. When you have programs that have not had one graduate pass the NLE, then things need to be corrected. It does not matter if one wants to study, but if there is no work for them and no way for them to get work in another country, then something needs to be done about it."

When training is not meeting the standards in other countries, then you need to fix it. All Nursing Colleges teach the same curriculum and the differences are in the quality of he lecturers and the internal testing systems used by the College. The government regulates the licensing of the schools and if they do not comply with standards, then it is the government's responsibility to sanction the college. There needs to be inspections and accountability for the results.

It is also the responsibility of the nurse to assess the standard of the college and do as you have said before "due diligence" the same as if you are going o apply for an agency.

Philippine Nursing standards are accepted all over the world, subject to testing for competency in their systems. The Philippine hospitals are the problem and the differences in our laws and society to other countries, not the general nursing training. If it was then opportunities wouldn't exist in the US, England, Canada, New Zealand, Ireland, Saudi, Dubai, Singapore ec.

And it is our life's choice to decide what is best for us. If it is though the opportunities are not there and we have to do something about it, perhaps it is necessary to keep in mind the Philippines is a THIRD WORLD COUNTRY, and that means limited resources and opportunities.

Lets keep the responsibility here where it lies, with the GOVERNMENT LICENSING

suzanne4, RN · Jul 23, 2008

You are assuming things that are not true. And actually not all of the nursing programs in your country are accepted all over. There are actually some programs that are four years in length that have not been accepted by CA BRN as a matter of fact.

Each school can set its own requirements, even in the US, there are programs that are not accepted in all fifty states.

And unfortunately, the clinical training part that should have the most importance is not being given what it needs. When instructors have no clinical experience but are now the teachers, something is wrong, and your country is the only one that permits that. And the schools are to blame for that, not the newbie instrutors, and not the government. Responsibility lies first with the schools to provide the best care that they can.

You are still stating what you think is happening, but in actual reality it is not. You are basing things on what you are seeing right now, but not on what has been happening even five years ago.

And not all countries take graduates from your country directly or without actual experience to prove that they can do things. Skills are not what they should be for the newer grads coming out of school there.

How about the RNs that have graduated from a four year program that have never inserted a foley catheter, or an NG tube, or have administered different forms of medications. You are basing things on what you know of in your area, but not what is happening in the rest of your country.

And it is all well-documented on this site as well as others.

And until these second courser programs sprung up, there was never any issues with the skill levels for most, but they have gone way down by the sudden increase in nursing students, now up to just under a million. And your country is unable to provide jobs for any of them, and it is not the responsibility of other countries that they be required to assume these nurses, and this is what you are not understanding.

When the passing score of the NLE is less than 45%, it states that there is trouble right away. And that is why most of the other countries now want to see a passing score on the NLE before they will even consider one for licensure.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Jul 23, 2008

In my home state if a school has a low passing rate, it is reviewed by the BON and our agencies such as the NLN. One school was closed for admissions until the ciriculum is sorted out. The Number of MSN nurses are counted each year and credentials are reviewed annually. No new graduate of a MSN would be allowed to teach unless they had experience as a RN (3-5 years).

The goal is for the nursing graduate pass on the first attempt, when a student doesn't pass the first time that is a failure for the program and should be judged as that. Do Phillipine graduates hold their schools accoutable if the can't pass the NLE?

Reading here it seems exceptable to take the boards numerous times, US employers will question why it took so many attempts to pass the NCLEX, and I would be very leary of someone who had to take it three times.

US employers who find nurses taking multiple attempts to pass the NCLEX ok, probably would not be a place I would want to work or be a patient.

I agree, years ago Phillipine Nurses had an excellent reputation, but one has to deal with the current state of education not what was done in the past.

nosebleed23 · Jul 23, 2008

Sorry, but that is not true. When you have programs that have not had one graduate pass the NLE, then things need to be corrected. It does not matter if one wants to study, but if there is no work for them and no way for them to get work in another country, then something needs to be done about it.
When training is not meeting the standards in other countries, then you need to fix it.

I guess your right.... hopefully everythng will be solve as soon as possible... you guys knows more than me... tnx

sally22 · Jul 23, 2008

"And until these second courser programs sprung up, there was never any issues with the skill levels for most, but they have gone way down by the sudden increase in nursing students, now up to just under a million. And your country is unable to provide jobs for any of them, and it is not the responsibility of other countries that they be required to assume these nurses, and this is what you are not understanding."

Why would anyone think it is the responsibility of other countries to take these nurses. And why is nursing different to any other supply and demand situation. When you have too many the price drops or businesses collapse. If the product is no good then no one will take it. And if it is no good then in the case of nurses it is the Government that needs to fix it. Pressure from other countries and the general community will create this change if it is really needed, but with s many passers there seems to be enough nurses for most of the countries with some countries actively and aggressively seeking Filipino nurses.

If second coursers do not make the grade let the prospective employers make the decision to employ or not.

first or second or even third coursers

If they pass the NLE and the other countries requirements what is the problem. We all know not all the nurses will pass the requirements of the countries they want to apply to. So what. Why should this deter them.? Why shouldn't the nurses here look for and take the opportunities as they arise, first or second or even third coursers? Why are they any different to others?

A nurse is a nurse if they have passed all requirements and clinical experience. The only argument here is how they will obtain the clinical experience or if there are countries that will take them without it and train them.

"In my home state if a school has a low passing rate, it is reviewed by the BON and our agencies such as the NLN. One school was closed for admissions until the ciriculum is sorted out. The Number of MSN nurses are counted each year and credentials are reviewed annually. No new graduate of a MSN would be allowed to teach unless they had experience as a RN (3-5 years)"

Correct, the colleges need to be accountable to provide the full course and meet acceptable passing levels. This is the RED FLAG. The clinical training if unsatisfactory, is part of this and part of the hospitals responsibility as well. The finger is clearly pointed at the government and it needs to take responsibility for the mass failures.

Closure of colleges happens in a number of countries and is essential to maintain standards in the long run. The colleges will not self manage if there is nothing to lose and the students are often ignorant of the outcomes.Who should expect a college to be inadequate if it is licensed by the Government of the country.

g_l · Jul 23, 2008

suzanne4"Sorry, but that is not true. When you have programs that have not had one graduate pass the NLE, then things need to be corrected. It does not matter if one wants to study, but if there is no work for them and no way for them to get work in another country, then something needs to be done about it."
When training is not meeting the standards in other countries, then you need to fix it. All Nursing Colleges teach the same curriculum and the differences are in the quality of he lecturers and the internal testing systems used by the College. The government regulates the licensing of the schools and if they do not comply with standards, then it is the government's responsibility to sanction the college. There needs to be inspections and accountability for the results.
It is also the responsibility of the nurse to assess the standard of the college and do as you have said before "due diligence" the same as if you are going o apply for an agency.
Philippine Nursing standards are accepted all over the world, subject to testing for competency in their systems. The Philippine hospitals are the problem and the differences in our laws and society to other countries, not the general nursing training. If it was then opportunities wouldn't exist in the US, England, Canada, New Zealand, Ireland, Saudi, Dubai, Singapore ec.
And it is our life's choice to decide what is best for us. If it is though the opportunities are not there and we have to do something about it, perhaps it is necessary to keep in mind the Philippines is a THIRD WORLD COUNTRY, and that means limited resources and opportunities.

Lets keep the responsibility here where it lies, with the GOVERNMENT LICENSING

i beg to differ. my highschool classmates and i have exchanged notes and syllabi(plural of syllabus; correct if wrong), and out of 14 schools only two have covered all the topics present and/or absent in others. i just lost my copies of these last year.

and being the responsibility of the nurse to assess the standard; as stated in a previous post and in yours, the nation is in the state of SCARCITY(ha ha, how's that for a SONA/state of the nation address:yeah:!) what if the school's got the lowest standard, yet is the only affordable one? having the view of "nursing is the ticket to prosperity" they'll go for it.

In my home state if a school has a low passing rate, it is reviewed by the BON and our agencies such as the NLN. One school was closed for admissions until the ciriculum is sorted out. The Number of MSN nurses are counted each year and credentials are reviewed annually. No new graduate of a MSN would be allowed to teach unless they had experience as a RN (3-5 years).
The goal is for the nursing graduate pass on the first attempt, when a student doesn't pass the first time that is a failure for the program and should be judged as that. Do Phillipine graduates hold their schools accoutable if the can't pass the NLE?

Reading here it seems exceptable to take the boards numerous times, US employers will question why it took so many attempts to pass the NCLEX, and I would be very leary of someone who had to take it three times.
US employers who find nurses taking multiple attempts to pass the NCLEX ok, probably would not be a place I would want to work or be a patient.
I agree, years ago Phillipine Nurses had an excellent reputation, but one has to deal with the current state of education not what was done in the past.

no, they do not hold accountable their alma mater. that's why they have REVIEW CENTERS:lol2:!

my aunt(who is a nurse for almost two decades), my professors and to a certain degree, myself, long for the time when the criteria is set back to:

1. be a upper (something)% of your HS graduating class to be accepted in a nursing curriculum.

2. maintain a set average standard to stay in the program.

3. limit the tries for the NLE.

4. return to the schools themselves the responsibility of preparing their graduates for the NLE, not those #$^%^$ review centers.

well, just wishful thinking...

suzanne4, RN · Jul 23, 2008

You have made some excellent points and thank you for backing up what I have been stating all along. There was a time when everyone took responsibility for what they were learning, but that is not the case any longer.

Schools need to be closed if they do not meet the requirements for having x-number of students pass the NLE the first time, same way that is done in every other country. Those programs are not permitted to remain open, not sure why your country is permitting it.

-----------------

And to answer the above posts, most other countries that will accept a nurse from your country requires several years of paid work experience there, and that includes Canada, Australia or the bridge program is required, Singapore requires minimum of two years of paid work experience as well.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Jul 24, 2008

If I understand you correctly, nursing is not a selective process, that you don't have to maintain a standard and can take the NLE unlimited times?

And posters say your schools have high standards? I don't encourage my students to take a review course, especially if they did well in school. My students are really poor, some of them had to save for the cost of the test. Your nursing program should be able to prepare for a basic licensing exam.

g_l · Jul 24, 2008

If I understand you correctly, nursing is not a selective process, that you don't have to maintain a standard and can take the NLE unlimited times?

before, you have a set number(i think it was 2-3 times) of tries before you have to take a refresher course of about 6 months. now, its all the way, try and try until you die...

and as stated somewhere: AS LONG AS YOU CAN AFFORD YOU CAN STUDY.

And posters say your schools have high standards? I don't encourage my students to take a review course, especially if they did well in school. My students are really poor, some of them had to save for the cost of the test. Your nursing program should be able to prepare for a basic licensing exam.

not all. i can teach as a CI by getting 8 units of masteral studies(even if you don't finish it). some schools don't need any units at all(if the subject matter is of less than 3 units or you are a CI in an easy area, e.g. the nursery, outpatient dept, etc.) i can also be a reviewer in a review center if: 1. i am a former customer; 2. i scored high on the NLE; having the salary of php 500-600 an hour even if i am a new graduate/passer! :yeah:

i won't name names, they know who they are. :bugeyes:

sally22 · Jul 24, 2008

I have been asking around now you have raised questions and have found that if a nursing college fails to have one board passer in 3 years they lose their license. They can also lose it if their performance is very low.

I think it needs to be stronger than this so the financial pressure is placed back on the nursing college and the Govt really needs to take action on this to follow up and sanction and remove the licenses where the colleges do not meet the standards.

The nurses are the ones to suffer here and they should not.