Attitudes towards LPN's

SunnyAndrsn · Sep 4, 2009

Hi, I am a nursing student, and after year 1 of my RN, Ive realized I can't afford to finish RN so I'm doing the 2 year LPN course instead. One day I do hope to upgrade but for now it will just be LPN. I've been reading alot of discussions on here and alot of what i read is people (RN's) talking about how bad LPNs are and how unsafe they are. I don't want to end up in a career where I have no respect from my colleagues. I thought we were all nurses, and although RNs do have a greater scope of practice what is the purpose of disrespecting LPNs?
Thanks

I work with a lot of nurses, in three different settings. Some are good, some are bad, some are RNs, some are LPNs. There is no point in offering disrespect to colleagues. There IS a point in helping colleagues become better nurses, and I hope my fellow nurses do the same for me.

TruNurse86 · Sep 4, 2009

:igtsyt:

I totally agree with you candygyrl1985. I am in a similar boat. I am 23 and attempting to become an lvn simply because I can not sit and wait to take pre reqs for the RN program. My mother had a stroke about 2 years ago leaving her partially paralyzed. My sister is the main caretaker but I do what I can to help.

Everyone comes from different walks of life. If those that have so much disrespect for those who are "beneath" them then they have not walked in that person's shoes. Believe me when I say that simply pegging someone as lazy, undevoted and (dare I say) dumb are not absolute reasonings to their behavior and/or decisions. We just play the cards that we were dealt. :spbox::hngon:

Cinqly, BSN, RN · Sep 4, 2009

Hi, I am a nursing student, and after year 1 of my RN, Ive realized I can't afford to finish RN so I'm doing the 2 year LPN course instead. One day I do hope to upgrade but for now it will just be LPN. I've been reading alot of discussions on here and alot of what i read is people (RN's) talking about how bad LPNs are and how unsafe they are. I don't want to end up in a career where I have no respect from my colleagues. I thought we were all nurses, and although RNs do have a greater scope of practice what is the purpose of disrespecting LPNs?
Thanks

This may have already been addressed, but if you already have 1 year of RN schooling under your belt, is it really going to be cheaper to do a 2 year lpn course??? :twocents:

Circejane · Sep 4, 2009

The OP is Canadian, and RN is a Bachelor's degree only there. She has no ADN RN option.

I will say that the difference that I see between LPNs and RNs is level of knowledge. Not practical knowledge, I'm talking a more in-depth understanding of the hows and whys of medical conditions and patient care. The additional prereqs and the RN level coursework adds SO MUCH to a nurse's information base. As an LPN I understood what an ACE inhibitor was and how it worked, now I know exactly what ACE is, how it fits into the whole renin-angiotensinI-angiotensin2-aldosterone cycle, what can affect it, etc. It takes critical thinking to a whole new level.

When I would ask questions of the nursing staff in clinicals (all of whom are very good nurses), it was clear that the while the LPNs were awesome at many things, the RNs had a much greater breadth of knowledge and could answer many questions much more completely. Speaking for myself and fellow students, we all comment on how we thought we knew a lot at the end of the LPN program, but now we know even more, and realize how much we still DON'T know! I'm sure with my BSN I'll be saying the same about the ADN level, and onward and upward.

Just my two cents worth.

linzz · Sep 4, 2009

The OP is Canadian, and RN is a Bachelor's degree only there. She has no ADN RN option.
I will say that the difference that I see between LPNs and RNs is level of knowledge. Not practical knowledge, I'm talking a more in-depth understanding of the hows and whys of medical conditions and patient care. The additional prereqs and the RN level coursework adds SO MUCH to a nurse's information base. As an LPN I understood what an ACE inhibitor was and how it worked, now I know exactly what ACE is, how it fits into the whole renin-angiotensinI-angiotensin2-aldosterone cycle, what can affect it, etc. It takes critical thinking to a whole new level.
When I would ask questions of the nursing staff in clinicals (all of whom are very good nurses), it was clear that the while the LPNs were awesome at many things, the RNs had a much greater breadth of knowledge and could answer many questions much more completely. Speaking for myself and fellow students, we all comment on how we thought we knew a lot at the end of the LPN program, but now we know even more, and realize how much we still DON'T know! I'm sure with my BSN I'll be saying the same about the ADN level, and onward and upward.
Just my two cents worth.

With regards to a greater depth of knowledge, are you referring to RN's with a degree or those with the two or three year college diploma that have been grandfathered in?

Although I am in favour of nurses being holders of a degree, there are also nurses with two year diplomas who have developed excellent assessment skils after years of experience and by taking extra courses during their careers. I have two aunts who are not degree nurses, but have been charging over oncology units for 25 years and they both have noticed that many new nurses, although they may have a great breadth of knowledge, often have difficulty with communicating with patients and other staff and prioritizing their workloads effectively.

In essence, I am somewhat in agreement with your post but I also feel extra education is only one small piece of what is needed to take care of patients safely. Just my opinion.

Circejane · Sep 4, 2009

I'm speaking of a US ADN RN (lots of letters there!) vs. an LPN. I can only assume, as I'm not there yet, that the theory and research courses that make up so much of the upper level BSN coursework help enhance a nurse's expertise, but I'm talking about the BIG jump in the amount of clinical knowledge between the LPN and ADN.

My personal experience and opinion might have to do with my school--the ADN program here is pretty tough, with more prereqs than many other schools. Pathophysiology is a prereq for the RN level, as well as two semesters of advanced A&P (vs. the Essentials of A&P needed for the LPN certificate program). Our school also has many more clinical hours than are required by the state (MI), and it really makes a difference. Grads of our school have a reputation for being able to hit the ground running much better than some other schools with fewer clinical hours.

Most of the nurses that I'm speaking of in clinicals are ADNs, but some are BSNs, and one is an MSN. I loved the LPNs that I worked with, but if I asked them "what exactly are the implications of a low serum albumin?" or "why are patients with leg fractures so much more prone to DVT and PE than, say, arm fractures?" or "how exactly do corticosteroids raise the WBC, and how long does that last once meds are discontinued?" I would get answers that I would later find out were either incomplete or incorrect, while the RNs just had more knowledge of the hows and whys and whats of everything.

I hear a lot of LPNs stating that the ADN is just the same coursework over again for another year, but I have to disagree. I see it like this--when I was a CNA, I knew that the LPNs at my LTC knew a lot, but I really didn't realize how MUCH they had to learn to be LPNs until I got into the nursing program myself. Now that I'm in the RN program, it's the same thing--I knew that RNs knew more, but I didn't realize how MUCH more until I really got into it. I'm sure that this travels all the way up through DNP, and of course common sense and other nursing skills play a huge role. We all know someone who is excellent in the classroom and not so great on the floor, and vice versa.

I guess I'm just saying that I'd like to see respect on both sides of the issue--respect towards LPNs for how much they have learned and all that they can do, and respect from LPNs for RNs for the additional knowledge and responsibilities that they have. :) We've all worked hard to be nurses.

Fiona59 · Sep 4, 2009

Dear Mods:

Could we please move this thread to the CANADIAN forum where it belongs?

linzz · Sep 4, 2009

Thank you for clarifying your position, sometimes it gets blurred between Canadian and US nursing requirements as there seems to be some differences there.

Like yourself, I am also an advocate of respect and teamwork among all levels and I intend to keep this attitude even after I comlete my BSN, which will be my second degree, sigh!

I wish you the best in your career.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Sep 4, 2009

I would HOPE that the RN has a higher level of education that goes along with the pay and additional responsibility. No one is saying that the level of education between LPNs and RNs is identical-it would not make sense. What I am saying is not to disrespect the title and give the attitude that we do not belong, have nothing to contribute or are lazy and unambitious people. There is a big difference, I think.

Also, it does not mean that an LPN that does NOT want that additional responsibility or stress deserves to feel that she does not belong in the health care setting at all. Again, I often see that it is easy for many to say that a good CNA is worth their weight in gold, but (at least from what I see), many say that it is too much trouble or inconvienent to work with an LPN. Now, if one wants to say that a lazy, careless employee of ANY title is too much trouble, I am sure everyone can agree.

JDCitizen · Sep 5, 2009

Regrettably this thread only goes to show that its not a just US problem or just a Canadian problem:

- Nurses spend a lot of time eating their own.

- Nurses spend a lot of time looking down at other nurses with different levels of education.

Here in the US it is more than just RN vs LPN, it’s also RN vs RN (ADN/BSN), in the past it was almost any nurse vs diploma nurses... Its also BSN vs MSN and now with the doctorate level of training we add a new level of argument....

My experience in the past as a floor nurse: If the unit secretary, the orderly, the CNA, the LPN and/or RN did not show up/did not pull their load my night usually went worse than necessary. Unfortunately when my night went bad I was not the only one suffering.

When we all get along and do our jobs the patient benefits.

andreaskyeLVN · Sep 5, 2009

You know I was really excited to find this forum until I started reading this thread. Granted, not all of you are negative, but some are. Ack, I am done.

Let me just say, at the facility I am at, I train RNs trying to come in on the floor.

I will agree that the biology, A and P, etc are there in the RN's education, and that is great and I have the due respect for them.

But ask me in the hospital if I want a new RN to administer a med or insert a cath, or an experienced LVN, give me the LVN.

We were trained in the skills. That was our focus and most of us are pretty darn good at it. Geez. Arrogance.

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · Sep 5, 2009

Dear Mods:
Could we please move this thread to the CANADIAN forum where it belongs?

Your request has been granted.