Entry into Practice: Direct Entry MSN Programs - page 8

by VickyRN Senior Moderator

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Direct entry masters in nursing programs offer a rapid entrance into both the profession of nursing and advanced nursing practice. These unique programs are also known as entry-level or alternate entry nursing masters programs.... Read More


  1. 1
    Quote from bcgradnurse
    "i am sorry but have to judge this as not good path or safe enough education to take care of patients as a fnp right out of college. i would request a physician instead. oh, i have arnp and md, and lawyers in my family also. if you ask me , we should follow the money trail on this. the cheap and short cut way has always cost this world in every area of expertise. no wonder usa ranks 37 healthcare. the most of public does not know the differance between a cna,lpn,rn,arnp or nursing phd in the first place, god help us.
    oh gee,i think i will become a lawyer and work in nj with detox waste law sues is there a two year program for that? rofl"

    you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but please tell me about your personal experience with direct entry grads. i'd like to hear some concrete basis for your bias.

    i certainly don't regard my direct entry program as the cheap, short cut way. i had to take 3 years of pre-requisites, despite the fact that i have a bs in another health care profession plus an mba, plus my de program. and god knows it wasn't cheap....my huge student loan debt will attest to that. from my experience, my program consisted of highly intelligent, incredibly motivated people (myself included..lol) who were willing to put all else on the back burner to devote themselves to being the best caregivers we could be.

    i have to say i'm dismayed at the hostility i've encountered both here and out in the world towards de grads. i never thought the nursing profession would be like that, but maybe i'm naive. i thought only lawyers ate their young....:wink2:

    :wink2: lawyers too eat their young???? no kidding !!! :chuckle not really surprising , considering some of them will chase ambulance for a living ! lol. nurses, for some reason have earned that reputation....i too have experienced some nurses who were hostile to me in my student days and at work in some places. mind you , not all are like this. i think these people who pick on the orienties and new graduates have some serious insecurities , how else would they pick on someone that needs help ? there must be other ways to stroke their egos and insecurities aside from " kicking an already lame horse"?
    i am just so glad to know , just by this website that there are still some good people ! thank you dear lord!
    VickyRN likes this.
  2. 2
    Quote from manchmedic
    I have a different perspective on this, one that hasn't been discussed in this forum. And I think it at least merits being heard.

    I am also looking at a DEMSN program, specifically the program at the University of New Hampshire. Currently I'm taking the required pre-req's so that I will be able to apply for admission in the next 12 months. My perspective? I'm a Paramedic. In addition to the BS degree I have in Computer Science, I've been registered and licensed as an EMS provider for the past 17 years, and as a Paramedic since 2003. I am also certified as a Critical Care Paramedic and work on an ALS/CCT truck for one of the EMS services that covers the Greater Boston area.

    I'm looking at this for a couple of reasons. First, while it is a good thing to have, whether or not it is advanced practice personally really doesn't matter to me; it is an entry into the nursing profession. Second, I want to take this and use it to further my career, continuing to work in Critical Care, whether it is in an ICU setting or continuing to do CCT from the nursing perspective, which likely means I'd have to pursue the appropriate advanced certifications as well (CCRN of CFRN). Third, I've been looking for a reason to go to graduate school. In my opinon, this is a valid one as it sort of kills two birds with one stone, so to speak.

    I've read a great deal about the issue of clinical experience in this forum and whether or not someone coming out of a DEMSN program would have enough experience to be effective. Not having been there yet, I don't know the answer to that question, although the 4 nurses I know that have graduated from the program I'm talking about have done well for themselves. I do know, however, that my background as a pre-hospital medical provider (yes, Paramedics are indeed medical providers, contrary to what some may think) would likely influence the way I look at such a program. And I would also hope that my background would at least be taken into consideration where experience is concerned. Whether or not this is true obviously remains to be seen.

    Feedback is welcome.
    I have the utmost respect for paramedics. I work part-time at a small community hospital ER and intermingle with some amazing paramedics. It sounds like you have years of direct patient care experience under your belt, which will serve you well in an advanced practice role. I wish you the best in your future career as an advanced practice nurse!
  3. 0
    Quote from Moogie
    What you say makes a tremendous amount of sense. I agree with you about the midwifery model---it seems more empowering for women and much more family friendly. Thank you for sharing what got you started on your journey. I think the families you serve will be fortunate to have you.



    Again, what you say makes sense. Your role will be completely different from that of an RN working in a hospital-based L & D environment and, as you know this is what you want. I think you would be wasting your time to do a more traditional educational route and to work in a hospital-based situation before going on to become a CNM.

    My curiosity is piqued because I am a nurse educator, not currently working because I'm headed back to school myself. I do find it fascinating to look at the history of nursing education and I am definitely open to new ideas and new options, especially for those who are pursuing the nurse practitioner route. I also want to be as open-minded as possible because someday I might be teaching students in similar programs.



    Too late! Seriously, I have learned a lot from the posters on this thread. You all have definitely broadened my thinking in terms of looking at the ELMSN as a legitimate option for many nurses. Certainly not all nurses---I think those who are able to complete these programs are a special breed.


    Unfortunately, that seems to be a common feeling among nurses---the intimidation and competition that seems rampant between nurses who have different educational levels. If you have a chance, look at some of the threads about LPNs/LVNs feeling put down by RNs. My initial preparation was at the ADN level and many diploma-educated nurses looked down on us because we went through a "lesser" level of education. Those who went directly into BSN programs had it worse, though, because many were looked down upon because they didn't have as much clinical as did the diploma-educated RNs. I've seen many BSNs be treated with outright hostility on the floors because of their education and, after I got my BSN in the first RN to BSN program at my university, I experienced some hostility, too.

    I will be honest in saying that sometimes I feel frustrated with the notion of the ELMSN program---not anything against the graduates---but I feel frustrated with the system. There are many people who go through more traditional education and jump through a LOT of hoops. I know of MSN programs that won't even look at an applicant who does not have at least two years of experience as a floor nurse---so maybe you can understand why it seems incongruent that while some programs require experience, others don't and even offer entry-level MSNs to non-nurses. Traditional MSN programs can be difficult to get through and impossible if you need to drop out for any reason. I tried to transfer from one program to another for various reasons (GPA was not one of them---I had a 3.75) but most of my credits would not transfer even though I was in the same state university system. I got horribly burned out with the educational process---and then moved out of the area---so I'm probably going to have to start over if I go the MSN route---unless I get accepted into the BSN to PhD program to which I have applied. I don't understand why there is so much inconsistency in nursing education and I sometimes feel like

    I'd be happy to share a little more of my story with you if it helps you to see another side but right now I need to go vacuum the downstairs. I'm stuck between programs right now and have no excuse not to clean the house!

    Thank you again for your thoughtful and informative post.

    I too am contemplating higher education ---- but I need to know what specialty I really could apply it to. I just do not want to get a masters degree just to have that title....If I have to produce and finish a thesis, it'd better be one of my lifes passion, otherwise it is just a paper thing.
    In answer to the frustrations of non applicable credits between schools , I believe the schools make more money this way . It is sad , but it is the money trail. Now talk about NP's ---You would think that by now they will have an NP program , specializing in Geriatrics !!! Baby boomers , (including me - LOL) will be leading the market , or greatly affecting the Medicare arena, since we will be collecting our well deserved social security and using the Medicare benefits that we have paid into all this years.
  4. 1
    There are Geriatric programs and there are many other here in Florida of course
    we have a higher retirement rate of course
    The state colleges are usually about supply and demand
    we have so many Nursing programs springing up here that even UOP has lower it prices according to zip code in FL
    VickyRN likes this.
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    Quote from MaritesaRN
    I too am contemplating higher education ---- but I need to know what specialty I really could apply it to. I just do not want to get a masters degree just to have that title....If I have to produce and finish a thesis, it'd better be one of my lifes passion, otherwise it is just a paper thing.
    I am so with you! I was actually told in my MSN program that it didn't matter if one's thesis was one's life passion. The whole idea was to produce something, no matter if it was of interest or not. Just do it! (Since when did the school's mission statement get replaced with a Nike shoe ad?) I think education is much more than getting a piece of paper---but I think my values were rather different from the places I did my grad work.

    If I'm going to devote that much time and energy to a thesis or dissertation, it had better be in an area in which I not only have interest but also clinical experience. I also am idealistic enough to want to produce research that will be relevant to clinical and/or educational practices. I'm not so grandiose as to think I will publish Moogie's Grand Theory of Life and Nursing the first semester of my doctoral program (I'll wait until the second semester, LOL!) But, seriously, I would rather invest my time researching something that I think contributes to our profession rather than something that might look "good" to other academics but be totally out of touch with actual nursing or educational practices.

    Quote from MaritesaRN
    In answer to the frustrations of non applicable credits between schools , I believe the schools make more money this way . It is sad , but it is the money trail. Now talk about NP's ---You would think that by now they will have an NP program , specializing in Geriatrics !!! Baby boomers , (including me - LOL) will be leading the market , or greatly affecting the Medicare arena, since we will be collecting our well deserved social security and using the Medicare benefits that we have paid into all this years.
    My cynicism is showing, but, yes, I think schools do stand to profit from making transfer students repeat courses similar to those they've already successfully taken. I spoke with a student who had transferred from a pre-med program in a private college to a BSN program in a state school and the state school refused to accept her advanced science courses that were at a higher level than those required for admission to the BSN program at the state school because they weren't exactly the same classes. :icon_roll I think someone who has a 4.0 in all his/her science courses in a pre-med program should not have to repeat those classes, especially if the pre-med courses were more advanced than those required for the BSN program. BTW, the student had transferred because there was a wait list for the nursing program at her private college and she thought she could get into the BSN program at the public school much more quickly and for less money.

    There are programs that offer Gerontological Nurse Practitioner tracks. Like you, I would like to see more of these types of programs. One program in my geographical area offers a Gerontological CNS track as well. I love teaching and I want to teach gerontology in baccalaureate or graduate program if and when I get my PhD but if I were to ever consider a NP track instead, I would want to specialize in gerontology. I really love gero!
    VickyRN likes this.
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    Quote from MaritesaRN
    I too am contemplating higher education ---- but I need to know what specialty I really could apply it to. I just do not want to get a masters degree just to have that title....If I have to produce and finish a thesis, it'd better be one of my lifes passion, otherwise it is just a paper thing.
    In answer to the frustrations of non applicable credits between schools , I believe the schools make more money this way . It is sad , but it is the money trail. Now talk about NP's ---You would think that by now they will have an NP program , specializing in Geriatrics !!! Baby boomers , (including me - LOL) will be leading the market , or greatly affecting the Medicare arena, since we will be collecting our well deserved social security and using the Medicare benefits that we have paid into all this years.
    There may be only a few direct entry Masters programs that offer a gerontological advance practice degree, but such programs do exist. Information about the Gerontological Nurse Practitioner advance practice role:

    Gerontological Nurse Practitioner

    Gerontological Advance Practice Nurses Association

    Gerontological Nurse Practitioner Programs (in US)

    Direct entry Masters programs offering a gerontological advance practice degree:

    University of Pennsylvania School of Nursing
    Seattle University College of Nursing
    Marquette University College of Nursing

    There are also Gerontological Clinical Nurse Specialist programs. Here is some more information on the Gerontological Clinical Nurse Specialist role. An example of such a program is here and here.

    Marquette University College of Nursing offers a direct entry route to gerontological clinical nurse specialist.

    Hope this helps and best wishes to you!
  7. 1
    The info about the gerontological NP programs was fascinating. I've worked with that population, but my first love will always be psych. If I do the NP route in a couple of years, I'm pretty sure that it will be at Oregon State, because my brother will be in Portland, but I would still love to hear about other psych NP programs if anyone has any words of wisdom to share (and of course, if anyone knows anything about the OSHU program, that would be great!)
    VickyRN likes this.
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    I too thought about persuing one of these programs until someone explained to me that if you don't complete it, you don't have an MSN, BSN, or an RN.
  9. 1
    Quote from kenni
    I too thought about persuing one of these programs until someone explained to me that if you don't complete it, you don't have an MSN, BSN, or an RN.
    That's good to know, but... if you don't complete any program, doesn't that mean that you don't have whatever it was you went in for? How is a DE MSN program different from the others?
    BCgradnurse likes this.
  10. 1
    Quote from kenni
    I too thought about persuing one of these programs until someone explained to me that if you don't complete it, you don't have an MSN, BSN, or an RN.
    The DE program I will be starting in January is a 3-year MSN-FNP program. The first two years are spent on RN courses and obtaining your RN license. So, while you don't receive a BSN degree as an interim step, you do indeed get your RN. So if you chose to quit at that point, while you would not take away a BSN or MSN, you would keep your RN. I would imagine that is typical of DE programs that do not confer a BSN in addition to the MSN.
    VickyRN likes this.


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