Entry into Practice: Direct Entry MSN Programs - page 6

by VickyRN Asst. Admin

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Direct entry masters in nursing programs offer a rapid entrance into both the profession of nursing and advanced nursing practice. These unique programs are also known as entry-level or alternate entry nursing masters programs.... Read More


  1. 1
    Quote from kanzi monkey
    Oh, you keep the license absolutely. You just don't have a degree to support it. There are a handful of people from my program that aren't planning to go further at this point. One of them is now enrolled in another program to get her BSN. It's an odd position to be in to be a nurse, but to not have a BSN or associate's degree. I feel like many programs keep you from getting a BSN simply so they don't lose you. For example, my program was very expensive. When I started, I definitely wanted to go the Master's route since I already have a bachelor's. So even though traditional BSN programs were cheaper, my school seemed the better choice. By the time I completed phase one of my program, I had at least the equivalent of a BSN since I already had 4 years of college and research behind me, but I wasn't given a BSN. Had I chosen to stick with bedside nursing and not take out more loans to complete phase 2, then I would be stuck...licensed, but degree-less. And with more debt than I would have had from a BSN program (already).

    So, programs that offer the BSN are nice in that you have that flexibility. As far as I know, all DE MSN programs are painfully expensive. I will be in debt for many years.
    Will your classmates who are not going on to Phase 2 of your program be able to get their master's degrees at some point, either from your school or another, if they choose to continue their education? And if they choose to go elsewhere for their master's degrees, would they have to do an RN to MSN program? It sounds as if one would NOT want to drop out of a program like this unless one decides not to pursue a career in nursing.

    I'm also curious---does your school offer a traditional or accelerated BSN and do the students in the DE MSN take any of the same courses?

    I admire your dedication and gumption to go through what sounds like a very difficult program. When do you expect to graduate?
    kanzi monkey likes this.
  2. 5
    Quote from Moogie
    Will your classmates who are not going on to Phase 2 of your program be able to get their master's degrees at some point, either from your school or another, if they choose to continue their education? And if they choose to go elsewhere for their master's degrees, would they have to do an RN to MSN program? It sounds as if one would NOT want to drop out of a program like this unless one decides not to pursue a career in nursing.

    I'm also curious---does your school offer a traditional or accelerated BSN and do the students in the DE MSN take any of the same courses?

    I admire your dedication and gumption to go through what sounds like a very difficult program. When do you expect to graduate?
    I'm not sure what the plan is for those that decided not to complete phase 2--I know one is entering another program to get a BSN, and some are just working as RNs at the moment. I imagine most will eventually return to the program if they want to go into advanced practice since having a degree-less RN license may be confusing for other graduate programs. I know when I completed phase 1, I definitely felt as though I was "in the snare"--because it IS really difficult to move on without completing the program. But it is an excellent school, and I have no regrets for finishing. Yes, there is a traditional BSN program at my school (it's pretty big), and during phase 1 most of my classes were combined with BSN students. I took every nursing course that the BSN students took, and did as many clinical hours.

    Oh, and I graduated last spring and got my NP license in July
    Just looking for a new job at this point!
    MaritesaRN, >30yrsRN, Moogie, and 2 others like this.
  3. 7
    Quote from kimiij
    Thanks! I just redesigned it a couple months ago.

    I graduated from college several years ago. I was working in my field but somehow (I don't remember the precipitating factor) I got really interested in pregnancy, childbirth, natural living, etc. I became a Lamaze childbirth educator and at first, I thought I wanted to be a physician (OB/GYN). However, while I was applying to and preparing for medical school, I couldn't shake the idea that the philosophies I was teaching through Lamaze exemplified optimal maternity care and that modern obstetrical care was lacking. Through my experiences and training I became more convinced that the midwifery model of care was superior and so I switched my focus to midwifery.
    What you say makes a tremendous amount of sense. I agree with you about the midwifery model---it seems more empowering for women and much more family friendly. Thank you for sharing what got you started on your journey. I think the families you serve will be fortunate to have you.

    Quote from kimiij
    My program is a 3-year DE APRN program. Among the roughly 87 students- 12-15 of us are future midwives. The remaining students are future FNPs, ACNPs, PNPs, and more. The first year is focused on nursing. My school is very direct and let us know that they are providing us the information that is crucial for Advanced Practice Nursing. Makes sense because upon completion of our program, we will be employed APRNs, not RNs. This school does not award a BSN- only an MSN. The second and third years are the specialty years during which your clinical hours are focused on your specialty.

    I can't speak for the other APRN specialties, but from my limited observational experience, it doesn't seem as though being a midwife is "the next step up" from being an L&D nurse. They are two different things. Two different roles and in my experience L&D nurses are often more aligned (in terms of philosophy) with OBs. And as we know, midwives are not OBs.
    Again, what you say makes sense. Your role will be completely different from that of an RN working in a hospital-based L & D environment and, as you know this is what you want. I think you would be wasting your time to do a more traditional educational route and to work in a hospital-based situation before going on to become a CNM.

    My curiosity is piqued because I am a nurse educator, not currently working because I'm headed back to school myself. I do find it fascinating to look at the history of nursing education and I am definitely open to new ideas and new options, especially for those who are pursuing the nurse practitioner route. I also want to be as open-minded as possible because someday I might be teaching students in similar programs.

    Quote from kimiij
    Don't worry- I have no interest in trying to change your mind.
    Too late! Seriously, I have learned a lot from the posters on this thread. You all have definitely broadened my thinking in terms of looking at the ELMSN as a legitimate option for many nurses. Certainly not all nurses---I think those who are able to complete these programs are a special breed.

    Quote from kimiij
    And this is what I think it comes down to - RNs and traditionally trained APRNs feeling Intimidated. I can't understand the sentiment as I am not in your shoes. But, from where I am standing, IMO it doesn't make sense. We should be able to work together even though we had different educational pathways.
    Unfortunately, that seems to be a common feeling among nurses---the intimidation and competition that seems rampant between nurses who have different educational levels. If you have a chance, look at some of the threads about LPNs/LVNs feeling put down by RNs. My initial preparation was at the ADN level and many diploma-educated nurses looked down on us because we went through a "lesser" level of education. Those who went directly into BSN programs had it worse, though, because many were looked down upon because they didn't have as much clinical as did the diploma-educated RNs. I've seen many BSNs be treated with outright hostility on the floors because of their education and, after I got my BSN in the first RN to BSN program at my university, I experienced some hostility, too.

    I will be honest in saying that sometimes I feel frustrated with the notion of the ELMSN program---not anything against the graduates---but I feel frustrated with the system. There are many people who go through more traditional education and jump through a LOT of hoops. I know of MSN programs that won't even look at an applicant who does not have at least two years of experience as a floor nurse---so maybe you can understand why it seems incongruent that while some programs require experience, others don't and even offer entry-level MSNs to non-nurses. Traditional MSN programs can be difficult to get through and impossible if you need to drop out for any reason. I tried to transfer from one program to another for various reasons (GPA was not one of them---I had a 3.75) but most of my credits would not transfer even though I was in the same state university system. I got horribly burned out with the educational process---and then moved out of the area---so I'm probably going to have to start over if I go the MSN route---unless I get accepted into the BSN to PhD program to which I have applied. I don't understand why there is so much inconsistency in nursing education and I sometimes feel like

    I'd be happy to share a little more of my story with you if it helps you to see another side but right now I need to go vacuum the downstairs. I'm stuck between programs right now and have no excuse not to clean the house!

    Thank you again for your thoughtful and informative post.
    Gator Girl 2000, Bree124, VickyRN, and 4 others like this.
  4. 6
    Just one more note on the negativity towards DE NPs and then I promise I'll be quiet!!! I have been on the other side of the fence....I worked for many years as a medical technologist prior to going to nursing school. The hospital I worked at had a policy of only hiring people with a BS in Medical Technology who were board certified. Over the last 5-7 years the med tech programs at colleges have disappeared, leaving an aging population of techs with no one to replace them come retirement. Three years ago the lab I worked at took a chance and hired a couple of bio majors and sent them for some training. I never said anything about it (I was thrilled to have new bodies to take some of the weekend/evening shifts!!), but I definitely had my doubts about their ability to succeed. I was pleasantly surprised to see how great these people were. They worked so hard to grasp the technology and theory, and turned out to be some of the best, most conscientious techs in the place. So, that was a lesson learned for me and is part of the reason I'm vocal about the DE programs and their graduates, cause I've been a doubter myself. Alternate educational pathways can be very effective. I think it's up to the individual student to make the most of what they learn and put in the work necessary to succeed.
    citymoose, Malefocker, Bree124, and 3 others like this.
  5. 3
    Quote from kanzi monkey
    I'm not sure what the plan is for those that decided not to complete phase 2--I know one is entering another program to get a BSN, and some are just working as RNs at the moment. I imagine most will eventually return to the program if they want to go into advanced practice since having a degree-less RN license may be confusing for other graduate programs. I know when I completed phase 1, I definitely felt as though I was "in the snare"--because it IS really difficult to move on without completing the program. But it is an excellent school, and I have no regrets for finishing. Yes, there is a traditional BSN program at my school (it's pretty big), and during phase 1 most of my classes were combined with BSN students. I took every nursing course that the BSN students took, and did as many clinical hours.

    Oh, and I graduated last spring and got my NP license in July
    Just looking for a new job at this point!
    Thanks for the info---it sounds like a good program for the right person. It would not have been the right kind of program for me because I went into an AD program immediately after high school. Come to think of it, I'm not sure the route I took would be the best for many people. I was an RN at age 20! (If I had to do it over, I would have either done a direct entry BSN program or I would have done an RN to MSN program had they existed back in the 1980s. I wish I would have had a more traditional college experience---maybe that's one reason I feel drawn to academia.)

    And on your graduation. I wish you the very best in finding your job.
    Last edit by Moogie on Sep 7, '09
    VickyRN, >30yrsRN, and kanzi monkey like this.
  6. 0
    Kimiij, you mentioned that you're in a DE APRN program where a lot of the students are in midwifery... it's not the OSHU program in Portland by any chance, is it?
  7. 0
    Quote from BCgradnurse
    Just one more note on the negativity towards DE NPs and then I promise I'll be quiet!!! I have been on the other side of the fence....I worked for many years as a medical technologist prior to going to nursing school. The hospital I worked at had a policy of only hiring people with a BS in Medical Technology who were board certified. Over the last 5-7 years the med tech programs at colleges have disappeared, leaving an aging population of techs with no one to replace them come retirement. Three years ago the lab I worked at took a chance and hired a couple of bio majors and sent them for some training. I never said anything about it (I was thrilled to have new bodies to take some of the weekend/evening shifts!!), but I definitely had my doubts about their ability to succeed. I was pleasantly surprised to see how great these people were. They worked so hard to grasp the technology and theory, and turned out to be some of the best, most conscientious techs in the place. So, that was a lesson learned for me and is part of the reason I'm vocal about the DE programs and their graduates, cause I've been a doubter myself. Alternate educational pathways can be very effective. I think it's up to the individual student to make the most of what they learn and put in the work necessary to succeed.
    BCGRAD
    Did you go to the Simmons Boston College
    I agree with that Program it is THREE Years plus the Prerequisites
    that is more like a RN to MSN program or EBSN to MSN
    I see you had a BS in Medical Tech now that is a whole other animal
    IMO that is a Simmons Boston College is a Outstanding and great program
    I thought you said you graduated from MS to MSN in two years program?
    IMO that would not me safe for Master to go to MSN
    Oh FIU is Florida International Unversity, This is a tough program also RN to MSN or MD to BSN to MSN program
  8. 0
    Quote from BCgradnurse
    So let me see if I have this right......nobody right out of school should be allowed to practice because they make mistakes...this includes RNs, MDs, PAs, NPs, PTs, etc. Again, you're not presenting concrete examples. And can I assume you have never made a mistake in your 30+ years of practice? You and your colleagues may be experienced and intelligent, but I don't think you speak for everyone in the nursing/medical world. Being stuck in the past and not being open to change and new ways does a disservice to your patients. I'm not sure where your bitterness and resentment is coming from, since you haven't yet given a specific example of where a DE NP caused harm. However, your attitude has only further inspired me to work harder to be an exceptional NP. Not because I have something to prove to those like you, but because that's what my patients deserve.
    Oh you taken what I said out of Context
    Did go ro Boston College or Berea College in Berea, KY.?
    Boston College ELMSN is a three year program and is Excellant it is a three year program and Plus prereqs.
    I thought you wrote you went to Berea College in Berea ,KY ad they do not have ELMSN the last time I check which was 15 minutes ago.
    there is are was another Blogger with the same name who graduated from Berea College
    BCGrad
  9. 2
    Quote from >30yrsRN
    This is a tough program also RN to MSN or MD to BSN to MSN program
    MD to BSN or MSN? Pardon my ignorance but would that be for a foreign-educated physician who was not able to obtain a medical license in the US so he/she could practice as an RN or an APRN?

    Not to go off on a tangent here but I remember hearing about a Hmong refugee who had been a physician but unable to become licensed when he immigrated, so he was working as a maintenance man in a hospital. This was many years ago and it seemed like such a waste---if he couldn't practice as an MD, it would have been a great option for him to have gotten into an ELMSN program to become an APRN.
    kanzi monkey and >30yrsRN like this.
  10. 0
    Quote from Anise1
    Kimiij, you mentioned that you're in a DE APRN program where a lot of the students are in midwifery... it's not the OSHU program in Portland by any chance, is it?
    No, it isn't. OSHU is supposed to have a great midwifery program though! I've heard great things about them


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