What happens if we DON'T recommend nursing as a career?

aerialflyer · Sep 8, 2000

It is good to hear that "caring" nurses are still valued! I am a nursing student who has just begun the "nursing" part of her education. On the first day of one of my classes the instructor said "...nurses tend to eat their young..." This has made me uneasy about my first clinical rotation. Yes, I'm enthusiastic. Yes, I'm looking at the nursing profession through rose-colored glasses. Yes, I have lots of caring energy to give. As a student and hopefully a new grad, will I be faulted in the work place for these qualities? Or, will veteran nurses welcome a fresh can-do attitude? I know I will welcome their wisdom of experience. I wonder why my instuctor made a point to tell this to our class? Was it an attempt to toughen us up for what lies ahead? Well, I refuse to be "toughened" up! I am a caring person, and I would like to stay that way!

saphie · Sep 8, 2000

It's good to keep your enthusiam because there will be days when you won't feel it! I personally wouldn't choose any other career, on the other hand, when someone asks me about if they should go in nursing, I'm careful what I say. Nursing is something that you should love to do, not something to pay the bills, I don't feel it's fair to the patients or your co-workers. And yes my experience has been that some nurses do eat your young, on the other hand some nurses go out of their way to help and support. See my posting in general nursing discussion re; work hassles and team spirit. Keep your chin up and don't let the 'eating young types' rob you of your joy!

nursedude · Sep 12, 2000

First off, let me say that I in no way intend this reply as a personal attack on anyone in this thread. My opinion is mine and a previous post by Saphie just didn't sit well with me. I feel that nurses have the same rights as any other human being who has a job. The SHOULD be able to pay their bills...

"Nursing is something that you should love to do, not something to pay the bills"

Um, okay... I love to go fishing. Some people love to get drunk, others love bicycling and others love watching daytime TV. I had a cousin once who loved Heroin but he overdosed....

HELLO??? Does anyone have a problem here with this statement?

"Nursing is something that you should love to do, not something to pay the bills"

When I am sick and in the hospital I need a professional who had a good nights sleep the night before taking care of me and I need a professional who can get a good nights sleep because they can afford to pay their bills and feed their kids. I need someone who can take care of me who is COMPETENT and CAPABLE of doing their job, not someone who merely enjoys or loves taking care of sick people. I need someone capable of making the correct decisions in an instant, I need someone who can calculate the correct dosage of whatever lifesaving medication I might need. I need someone who can rapidly assess my physical status. I need a professional who is inteligent, healthy, well rested and capable of doing a good job- all the time, not someone who merely "loves their job". I think that they call those people "candystripers".

Professional nurses DESERVE the right just like any other human being whether they love their job or not, to be able to pay their bills. WE ARE PROFESSIONALS, WE HAVE THE FREAKING RIGHT TO BE ABLE TO PAY OUR BILLS!!!

NURSING is a profession, not a hobby. Lets get paid for it, or is that to much to ask?

oramar · Sep 12, 2000

Originally posted by nursedude:
I feel that nurses have the same rights as any other human being who has a job. The SHOULD be able to pay their bills...

NURSING is a profession, not a hobby. Lets get paid for it, or is that to much to ask?

Nursedude, where have you been? We are all waiting for your comments on the Chicago Trib article on the killer nurses. We would also like to hear from you on this article, http://www.revolutionmag.com/engineering.html

el · Sep 13, 2000

WOW. What an article! I have actually been thinking the same thing as far as the hospital that I work in complaining of the nursing shortage, and me saying You created it with your downsizing and lay offs. I didn't have all the information of this article but it was fairly obvious to me. The only problem is hospitals are owned by large corporations that know nothing of healthcare and focus solely on the bottom line, regardless of what they say. Until the public becomes aware and forces change RN's can only hope. It is a shame this article and articles like this are available only on these sites, for all of us that already know the of the problem and have tried in vain for years to improve it from "the inside". Thanks for sharing that article, never knew of that site or that mag, needless to say I am a new subscriber.

nursedude · Sep 13, 2000

Oramar,

You know my stance on the whole deal with Nursing...

I believe that perceptions like "Nursing is something that you should love to do, not something to pay the bills" is part of the problem that the "Engineering a Shortage" article fails to mention...For some reason, nurses who have the attitude that they shouldn't be able to pay their bills do nothing more than make an already bad situation worse...Those nurses are the types who make the executives at hospitals happy because they allow themselves to be cut short- short on staffing, short on patient care, and short in the wallet. I think that we as professionals need to stand up and earn what is rightfully ours- it's not a crime to be able to earn more than enough money to pay your bills! Nurses are NOT servants, we are professionals who are worth our weight in gold.

I also believe that this current "nursing shortage" will not go away as it has in the past- not until nurses are paid more for what they do.

Mijourney · Sep 14, 2000

Hi HazeK,

I think that you and the others make some very good points in your posts. I agree that caring, compassion, competence, confidence, capability, as well as ability are attributes that a nurse should have at the bedside. But, I also feel that flexibility and adaptability carry more weight in the long run. Nursedude, for instance, if a nurse just emphasized confidence and capability and the nurse happened to be female, the customer, for the most part, would be turned off (rightly or wrongly, nurses are expected to be motherly toward the patient, physician, and support staff). This is also true for female physicians. In most societies, it is the woman that bears the burden of demonstrating "nuturing" characteristics due to cultural considerations. Perhaps the level of respect and pay for nurses would improve if more men were recruited into the profession. Working conditions would also improve once men who are, at this writing, the leaders of the world and thus the health care cost system, changed their mentality of inappropriately subordinating women. It's got to start somewhere. How about it nursedude?

nursedude · Sep 14, 2000

Mijourney,

I can't help but wonder, did you just come out of the narcotics cabinet? Not only did your post make me laugh I find it extremely sexist and discriminatory..."Working conditions would also improve once men who are, at this writing, the leaders of the world and thus the health care cost system, changed their mentality of inappropriately subordinating women."

Don't you see? It's not "men who own the world" who inappropriately subordinate women- rather its women like Saphie who believe -"Nursing is something that you should love to do, not something to pay the bills" that subordinate themselves!!!

Also, something else that makes me question your level of conciousness is your statement -"Perhaps the level of respect and pay for nurses would improve if more men were recruited into the profession." Umm, okay, just how do you expect to magically recruit more men into a profession where it's "something that you should love to do, not something to pay the bills"? As a man I had to leave my fulltime position as a RN because I could not support my wife and kids on the salary that an RN earns! What "men" do you plan on recruiting to make the pay and level of respect increase???

Also, what the heck are you talking about when you say "if a nurse just emphasized confidence and capability and the nurse happened to be female, the customer, for the most part, would be turned off (rightly or wrongly, nurses are expected to be motherly toward the patient, physician, and support staff). This is also true for female physicians." Isn't that just a tad bit discriminatory??? Motherly??? I'm sorry, I was NEVER motherly toward any patient, physician or support staff(compassionate and empathetic yes)- Lactation ends at an early age where I come from!!!

Mijourney · Sep 15, 2000

Hi nursedude,

glad you responded. Those of us who have posted for a while know that you seem to enjoy responding in an adversarial manner depending on the poster and the topic. It gets our juices going, and that's good if civility is left in the details.

I will tell you that I agree with your assessment that my statements could be taken as discriminatory and sexist. But then again, your assessment of Saphie's response could be equally construed the same. Discrimination and sexism, unfortunately, I feel has greatly impacted the progress of nursing. Nurses have been discriminated against for decades regarding working conditions and pay, mainly because it is a profession predominated by females; it's a generalist profession; and there are a lot of nurses to boot. Men have predominated the roles of CEO and president of hospitals and health care facilities for decades. Men predominate all branches of the government from local to federal. Until recently, men predominated the medical and law profession. These people directly impact us when decisions are made regarding the hows, whens, why, and how much. We need outspoken, articulate people like you to constantly disrupt the comfort zones of these officials to get the point home that you did not like, if you're no longer in nursing, or don't like working in a profession where only peanuts, chips, and dip are served (this is hypothetical). You want to work in a profession that serves meat, cake, and ice cream. I can't blame you for that. But don't fault HazeK, Saphie and others who came into nursing perhaps with a different focus then you did. As far as miracles are concerned, it would not take a miracle to try to recruit one man or child into the nursing profession. You just have to have the right attitude realizing that it may take a while and you may need help in your efforts. Mentoring or grooming a young person for the nursing profession does not require a miracle to perform.

bunky, BSN, RN · Sep 15, 2000

Sorry Mijourney, I have to agree with Nursedude on the idea of the salary. Why shouldn't we expect to be able to do the job and pay all the bills?

Currently, I find that the money issue is secondary to the lousy working conditions though. Yes, I'd like to see a raise, but more importantly I'd like to be able to do my job right and get out on time. If I can't have that, then there'd better be a raise in pay. Why should any of us work like slaves and still not make enough to cover all the bills without scrimping all the time? I agree too that hospitals count on that submissive matronly attitude to rake in the money for THEM to live comfortably.

I know, I am going to take some heat for this, but we need to take a stand on the wage issue as well as the working conditions issue. None of it would be so bad if the working conditions weren't so horrendous.

nursedude · Sep 15, 2000

Mijourney,

I'm not sure...Did I detect almost a subtle hint of some type of compliment? Maybe I need more coffee...

I couldn't agree with you more on these statements-"Discrimination and sexism, unfortunately, I feel has greatly impacted the progress of nursing. Nurses have been discriminated against for decades regarding working conditions and pay..." But....you "got my juices flowing" when you said "mainly because it is a profession predominated by females"...Here is my point(and I'll do my best to remain civil):

On one hand you point out that nursing has been impacted by discrimination and sexism but on the other hand it sounds to me as if you condone the sexism and discrimination by saying "...and the nurse happened to be female, the customer, for the most part, would be turned off (rightly or wrongly, nurses are expected to be motherly toward the patient, physician, and support staff). This is also true for female physicians. In most societies, it is the woman that bears the burden of demonstrating "nuturing" characteristics due to cultural considerations..." What I am trying to say to you and saphie(and anyone else) is that statements like "Nursing is something that you should love to do, not something to pay the bills" are just as damaging to the nursing profession(if not worse) than the sexism and discrimination!!! I believe that statements and "beliefs" like those perpetuate the sexism and discrimination.

"I'm not good enough", "I might loose my job if I vote for the union", "I could never do that", "The doctor might get upset so I won't call him", "I couldn't ask for a raise"..."Nursing is something that you should love to do, not something to pay the bills" are all self defeating statements that perpetuate the problems with nursing...

And again,- I'll do my best to remain civil although I must admit that I am clenching my teeth at this moment, because I strongly and uterly feel that statements like saphie's are the exact thing that I am talking about- by her saying "Nursing is something that you should love to do, not something to pay the bills" has just further worsened an already bad situation...Certainly, nurses must always be compassionate and caring however, as a human being with equal rights as any other human being, they ought to be able to pay their bills regardless of their organs! I feel that her statement inches the profession of nursing further down the drain.

IF I were the CEO where she worked I'd hire as many nurses that I could with that kind of mentality and then I'd tell them all how hard the medicare and HMO cutbacks hurt the hospital and then I'd tell them how sorry I was that there would be no raises this year...I'd then proceed to tell them how heartfelt their caring efforts were while I thought of ways to push my six figure income higher...

I guess it's all about attitude...If you are "okay" working like a dog and you are "okay" with not being able to pay your bills then "okay" go ahead and do that. I however, am not "okay" with that and I will not do either of those...I feel that to do so is foolish.

But what do I know? I mean, after all I am a man who is in the same gender as those men who "are, at this writing, the leaders of the world and thus the health care cost system..." and have the mentality of "inappropriately subordinating women"...

Sorry if I crossed the lines of being civil...