Religion Needed to be a Good Nurse?

rogramjet · Oct 28, 2005

First of all NO, you don't have to be religious of spititual to be a nurse, compassionate, caring, YES.

Second, I don't want people pushing their religious belifs on me, and we were taught in nursing school that this is inapppropriate.

Third, Marx needs to be interpreted on the basis of the times he lived. There was a great seperation of class...workhouses, poor houses, orphanages...remember Oliver Twist? How about Ebenezer Scrooge? "Are there no workhouses? Are there no prisons...then let them die and decrease the suplus population." Dickens was making a political commentary of the time...The Rich ran the country, and created the laws. The Rich also controlled the church. The Rich therefore wrote the State laws and the morales of the time. The Rich used the Church to help suppress the masses, therefore the satement..."the opiate of the masses..."

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Oct 28, 2005

nursemike said:
I confess, I haven't taken the trouble to look it up, but I was shocked, years ago, to learn that long before Marx, Thomas Jefferson described religion as the opium of the masses.
I wasn't going to weigh in on this, but I couldn't let the assertion that Marx was an idiot go unchallenged. Yes, I'll agree, I think he was wrong in many ways, but wrong does not equal stupid. Einstein was wrong about quantum mechanics, but he wasn't an idiot.
As for the apparent dichotomy between religion and spirituality, I would like to clarify the issue by muddying the waters with another comparison, between personal religion and public religion. I don't mean to disparage organized religion--throughout history, many fine people have practiced organized religion. Rev. King. The Dalai Lama (for whom I named my Himalayan cat, Dolly Llama). Mother Theresa. St. Francis of Asissi. My late Grandmother.
But it's all too easy to cite the horrors of organized religion, the various crusades and jihads, Inquisitions and witch hunts...the crucifixion of Jesus was the act of an organized religion. If we try to fit the religion of the Pharisees under the same tent as the faith of Bernadette, we end up with not the opiate of the masses, but the mescaline.
The key distinction, I think, is between those who perform religion as a formal (empty) ritual and those who experience a personal relationship with whatever God or god they worship. Or, from another angle, a pocketful of stones doesn't make you spiritual. You can sit under a pyramid until the cows come home, but if your heart isn't open to the universe, it's just silly. You can pray in the town square until you're blue in the face, but if you don't love God and your fellow man, you're just making noise.
What I'm getting at, in my usual verbose manner, is that we shouldn't compare the heartfelt faith of the devoutly religious to the trendy blather of feckless new-agers, or the life-long questing of the deeply spiritual to the hollow rantings of a t.v. evangelist.
I'm not sure how to tie this in to nursing. I do know that my old tomcat, Peaches, likes to bathe and cuddle and play with kittens, and I'm pretty sure he's a heathern. Or maybe his faith is so absolute that I can't begin to imagine it. Hmm. At any rate, I don't think caring, compassion, empathy, and love are the sole domain of any faith, persuasion, gender, or species, and those are the qualities (along with at least some vague idea what you're doing) that make us nurses.
Of course, it's pretty obvious that Republicans can't be good nurses.

1. I never said Marx was stupid. I said he was an idiot. There have been and are many 'smart' idiots in the world.

2. I actually agree with most of what you wrote. My understanding of religion is best summed up in Acts 17: "He (God) did all this so we might reach out and find Him, though He is not far from each of us." I don't think you get credit for 'going through the motions'. But I also think the effort to reach out is more important than the process of how you do it.

3. I'm not a 'republican'. I'm a 'movement conservative'. And for the record, I'm the best nurse in the history of nurses. (That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.) LOLOLOL.

~faith,

Timothy.

Hopalong · Oct 28, 2005

Nah, you don't have to be religious(spiritual) to technically be a good practictioner of nursing.

But since I was born again I'm a better nurse. :rolleyes:

Cute_CNA, CNA · Oct 28, 2005

Kabin said:
We just covered a spiritituality/religion lesson in our BSN course and the instructor (religious) came out and said good nurses had spirituality and would be there for whatever spiritual needs the PT had. I understand the benefits of PTs being able to express their own spiritituality, but not being spiritual myself, I always assumed this could happen without me losing my own identity/belief system by praying with the PT. There are professionals in this area afterall and it's not as if nursing doesn't have enough on its plate already.
So the question is, does the nursing career, with all it's specialized education and skills, also view good nurses to be spiritual/religious or is this instructor taking some liberties with the topic?

I didn't read the other responses, save for the first couple, so excuse me if I am repeating what someone else has said.

I don't think she should have made a judgment call by saying being spiritual makes for a good nurse. However, I agree with the first response. Maybe the instructor didn't express her message correctly, or you misinterpreted it.

Here is my opinion: you are not obligated to be spiritual, since it is not necessarily a given quality in all nurses. If you are not personally spiritual, you should not be expected to believe what the patient believes. But, it is beneficial for you to respect the patients' beliefs, and allow the patient to be spiritual. In other words, don't pass judgment on their beliefs, or question them. I think being spiritual helps people cope with things that happen in their lives, and offers some kind of "grand-scheme" meaning to it. Questioning or judging these beliefs would not only be insulting, but harmful. Which would go against, "Above all things, do no harm." At the same time, it is important that you respect the patients' decision to not be spiritual, so you don't push your beliefs onto them. I think it's okay to tell people about what you believe (if they ask), but don't expect them to agree with you or tell them they're wrong if they feel otherwise. Maybe you could learn something from each other?

That may be what she meant.

Edit: I hope this thread doesn't become solely about religion and our opinions about religion, rather than ADDRESSING THE ORIGINAL POSTER'S QUESTION!!

nursemike, ASN, RN · Oct 29, 2005

ZASHAGALKA said:
1. I never said Marx was stupid. I said he was an idiot. There have been and are many 'smart' idiots in the world.
2. I actually agree with most of what you wrote. My understanding of religion is best summed up in Acts 17: "He (God) did all this so we might reach out and find Him, though He is not far from each of us." I don't think you get credit for 'going through the motions'. But I also think the effort to reach out is more important than the process of how you do it.
3. I'm not a 'republican'. I'm a 'movement conservative'. And for the record, I'm the best nurse in the history of nurses. (That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.) LOLOLOL.
~faith,
Timothy.

Please understand it was never my intention to accuse anyone of being...the R word. I was, simply, inspired by Nurse Ratched to do some instigating. Religion, politics, ASN vs BSN: these horses are all looking a mite sickly, but it's still fun to drag them out and beat on them from time to time.

In school, some of my classmates held a prayer circle before each nursing test. I missed one, and got a C. To be honest, I think it was a coincidence. Or, more to the point, the hectic schedule that led me to be late for the prayer also interfered with my studying, which is why I didn't do so well. But, for all my many doubts about religion and spirituality, I do feel there was a power in quietly joining hands with a group of people I liked and loved and communing with the Almighty. It is said that the tao that can be spoken is not the true tao, and that goes to the core of my beliefs: the more you define it, the less it means.

As for the "masses," I think any talk of them is likely to wander from the truth, since the so-called masses are made up of many unique individuals. The masses are faceless because we choose not to see their humanity. It's clearly true that people will do collectively things they would never contemplate individually. Tomorrow night, the streets of my hometown with be filled with burning furniture, yet I doubt many people wake up and say, "I think I'll burn a sofa." It's just something the masses do after a football game. But among the mob, there will be a group of people who, at some moment, did actively choose to join in the melee, probably reasoning that it's just harmless fun, and a crappy old sofa, anyway. Others may decide sofas are boring--let's burn a police car. Some will go along, others will draw the line at sofas.

Marx, Jefferson, and countless others didn't see the humanity behind various religious movements. It's hard to think of a crowd as being made up of earnest, caring, sincere people. I have a habit of using t.v. evangelists as my archetype for false prophets (and I don't think I'm too far wrong in that), but it's a mistake to see those who follow them as mindless sheep. Get to know any one of them, and he or she is probably a lot like me, looking for hope and answers, love and purpose. We few who are chosen to experience these problems on a higher level of consciousness are in fact simply more conscious of ourselves than of others we don't know. We choose not to see that others are just as alive as we are. We see followers of organized religion as too afraid of "adult" questions to open their minds to other paths, or we see those who explore Eastern philosophies and paranormal phenomena as feckless dillitantes lacking the discipline to commit themselves to one belief system.

And yet, from certain angles, we're pretty much the same.

I didn't come into nursing through any clear intention of my own. By the time I started nursing school, I knew what I wanted, and I was determined to get there. Now that I'm here, I have no doubt it's where I need to be. But I stumbled into healthcare like a blind drunk, and in the times of doubt, I've reached the conclusion that I was led to this by something greater than me. Maybe God just wanted me to really understand that everyone looks pretty much the same when you're giving them a suppository. Maybe there are even larger lessons to come.

P.S. Not sure I'm really buying your distinction between "stupid" and "idiot," but I'll think about it.

Cute_CNA, CNA · Oct 29, 2005

Jesus, God, Yawah, Jevohah, Isis, Astarte, whatever you call your diety doesn't figure into the care you give your patients. It's your attitude, your compassion, and your treatment of them that makes you a good nurse.

Well said.

nurse4theplanet, RN · Oct 29, 2005

I think having religion/spirituality in your life DOES make you a better nurse (whatever that religion may be), because (and i am making a broad generalization here, i understand) most religions encompass basic loving, caring, moral values that we hold ourselves accountable to and effect the way we respond to others.

I am a christian, and whether or not you chose to believe in the teachings of the Bible, it still is an excellent creation of literature that sets forth moral and ethical codes of conduct and compassion...as do other religious guides.

Also, just because someone doesn't claim a specific religion or does not acknowledge a higher being does not make them unspiritual. Our spirit is who we are and influences the care that we give to those in need. I believe all nurses have kindred spirits to be able to perform in this feild.

As a christian, one of the basic teachings that I have lived by is not to judge others and to love all beings as children of God, regardless of fault, color, creed, etc. etc. I respect all religions with an open mind and do not force my views upon another. If I have a pt that approaches me with a delimma and I know they have similar beliefs, I offer my ear and share their experience with them...I do not shy away. If they do not share my beliefs, I do my best to find someone who can meet their needs.

And one last thought...a former poster stated that a nurse should not pray for her patients without their permission. Prayer is a powerful practice of my religion and personal beliefs, and I chose to pray for all those that I feel need MY GOD's blessing, and I will continue to do so in private with or without their permission because it is my conviction and right to do so.:)

fergus51 · Oct 29, 2005

asoldierswife05 said:
I think having religion/spirituality in your life DOES make you a better nurse (whatever that religion may be), because (and i am making a broad generalization here, i understand) most religions encompass basic loving, caring, moral values that we hold ourselves accountable to and effect the way we respond to others.
.:)

I would feel that way if I actually saw a difference in the behavior of the religious and non-religious I work with (or spiritual, whatever we want to call them). I don't. Some are great nurses, others are not so great. It's entirely possible to be a Christian and be a bad nurse and uncaring to other human beings. I see it when they interact with our non-traditional families all the time. You can be an atheist, but still believe in caring for your fellow human beings and respecting them. It is really about the individual's behaviors.

mtnmom · Oct 29, 2005

asoldierswife05 said:
I think having religion/spirituality in your life DOES make you a better nurse (whatever that religion may be), because (and i am making a broad generalization here, i understand) most religions encompass basic loving, caring, moral values that we hold ourselves accountable to and effect the way we respond to others.
I am a christian, and whether or not you chose to believe in the teachings of the Bible, it still is an excellent creation of literature that sets forth moral and ethical codes of conduct and compassion...as do other religious guides.
Also, just because someone doesn't claim a specific religion or does not acknowledge a higher being does not make them unspiritual. Our spirit is who we are and influences the care that we give to those in need. I believe all nurses have kindred spirits to be able to perform in this feild.
As a christian, one of the basic teachings that I have lived by is not to judge others and to love all beings as children of God, regardless of fault, color, creed, etc. etc. I respect all religions with an open mind and do not force my views upon another. If I have a pt that approaches me with a delimma and I know they have similar beliefs, I offer my ear and share their experience with them...I do not shy away. If they do not share my beliefs, I do my best to find someone who can meet their needs.
And one last thought...a former poster stated that a nurse should not pray for her patients without their permission. Prayer is a powerful practice of my religion and personal beliefs, and I chose to pray for all those that I feel need MY GOD's blessing, and I will continue to do so in private with or without their permission because it is my conviction and right to do so.:)

I could not have summed it up better myself.

I have a little prayer that I try to say on the way to work each time. It varies a little but always includes " and God, please keep my hands strong and steady, my mind clear, and my heart pure. Please keep my lips quiet when they need to be and help them utter the right words when needed. Be with my patients and their loved ones and wrap them in your love and comfort. Without you by my side I can do nothing but with you I can do anything that is your will." I promise you....if I ever am rushed or distracted and forget to pray this prayer on the way to work, things do not go well. Call it self-fulfilling prophecy, snake oil or call it what you will, but it does work.

So yes, I do need my religion to be a good nurse.

Some of you will laugh at me, others will be angry and maybe a few will agree. I don't care.

I am not intolerant of others' beliefs at all (unless their beliefs include intolerance - then it is a struggle), .but I just know that I am a better person with my God by my side - through my shifts and in my life.

nurse4theplanet, RN · Oct 29, 2005

fergus51 said:
I would feel that way if I actually saw a difference in the behavior of the religious and non-religious I work with (or spiritual, whatever we want to call them). I don't. Some are great nurses, others are not so great. It's entirely possible to be a Christian and be a bad nurse and uncaring to other human beings. I see it when they interact with our non-traditional families all the time. You can be an atheist, but still believe in caring for your fellow human beings and respecting them. It is really about the individual's behaviors.

If you read my entire post, I said the same thing...that nurses must have a caring kindred spirit to even perform in this feild.

I totally agree with you that some Christian nurses can be awful to their pts, just like I see the same lot come to church every Sunday but their heart is not in it. There are hippocrits everywhere sadly to say. Being truly religious is more than just claiming a God and going to church. It is a lifestyle you lead even when no one is watching.:kiss

and I believe that an atheist can be an exceptional nurse...it is not my place to judge. But I would like to add, that I find atheist more intolerant of my Christian beliefs than I am of there non-believing position. :confused:

sbic56, BSN, RN · Oct 29, 2005

asoldierswife05 said:
But I would like to add, that I find atheist more intolerant of my Christian beliefs than I am of there non-believing position.

Being agnostic, I have to respond to this. It's not that those who do not believe similarly are intolerant, moreso they do not like it when sometimes those of others faiths push their beliefs upon them and this just seems to happen more often in Christianity. Nontheists rarely talk about their beliefs unless they feel their belief system is being questioned. To me, religion is a personal thing and the "don't ask, don't tell" policy should be applied so nobody feels the need to defend their beliefs. I think oftentimes Christians assume everyone believes and do not mean to offend. For example, I know I sometimes receive those mass generated religious emails from friends who do not know my beliefs, because I don't talk about them publically and rather than become annoyed, I simply delete. Those who push when they do know how I believe, well then I get pissed. Nobody likes it when someone implies their belief system is "wrong." It's more about respecting others beliefs than being intolerant, IMO

fergus51 · Oct 29, 2005

asoldierswife05 said:
I believe that an atheist can be an exceptional nurse...it is not my place to judge. But I would like to add, that I find atheist more intolerant of my Christian beliefs than I am of there non-believing position.

I'm sorry that's been your experience. In the US, I have never worked anywhere that Christians are not in the majority. I respect their beliefs and only ask that they respect the beliefs of others. I have had several of them try to "save" me by making me a good Christian like them. It used to offend me, but now I just take the attitude that they are only trying to introduce me to something they think I will like, just like someone recommending a good restaurant. With that attitude, I just politely brush it off and usually they get the message and leave it at that.

The only time I have a problem with anyone's religious beliefs is when they encourage intolerance. We deal with a lot of families that are not married, including same sex couples. When I see the venom from some nurses who would call themselves Christians or spiritual, it just reinforces the belief that I have that religion is not a requirement for being a good nurse. For some nurses, like you, it will make them better at what they do. For others, it will make them worse. There is no hard and fast rule.