Religion Needed to be a Good Nurse?

[Kabin]

We just covered a spiritituality/religion lesson in our BSN course and the instructor (religious) came out and said good nurses had spirituality and would be there for whatever spiritual needs the PT had. I understand the benefits of PTs being able to express their own spiritituality, but not being spiritual myself, I always assumed this could happen without me losing my own identity/belief system by praying with the PT. There are professionals in this area afterall and it's not as if nursing doesn't have enough on its plate already.

So the question is, does the nursing career, with all it's specialized education and skills, also view good nurses to be spiritual/religious or is this instructor taking some liberties with the topic?

[leslie :-D]

But with both of these 'example' professions I suggested, once you establish some ethics, THEIR MOST IMPORTANT QUALITY IS HOW WELL THEY DO THEIR JOB. I don't care how ethical a mechanic is if he/she can't fix my car.

I don't care how moral a lawyer is if he doesn't know enough law to win a case.

AND - I don't care how 'caring' a nurse is that isn't technically good at what they do.

but would you retain a lawyer who could win your case, even if it infringed on the practice of immorality?

moreover, it seems that you place emphasis on a biomedical perspective...that focuses on pathophysiology & altered homeostasis, w/little or no emphasis on psychological, spiritual or sociocultural persuasions; which views all pts. with the same disease, as having the same problem regardless of their religious, spiritual, cultural, ethnic or psychosocial convictions.

it seems you place too much emphasis on the technical aspects of nsg.

but aren't we taught to treat the patient in a holistic manner.....body, mind and spirit?

in respect to the body, we use our knowledge base and intervene accordingly. even when the doctor is notified, we best have a sound foundation of the pathophysiology involved.

in respect to the mind, again we use our knowledge base and also defer to social services or psyche.

in respect to the spirit, we use our knowledge base, not our religious convictions. we use what our inner resources have taught us, what we have learned over the course of our lifetime....what is ethical, what is right, what is just, what connotes unconditional love and acceptance (etc etc etc) and we draw from these resources from within; not from external sources.

there lies the difference.

we are addressing spiritual distress from our pts., not religious distress.

yes, we try and provide a chaplain, rabbi, whatever will bring comfort and address their beliefs.

but spirituality does not differentiate between a priest and a rabbi.

spirituality reflects our relationship with our neighbor, mankind, the universe and with an inner sense of something greater than oneself. what will make my life and those i live with, and mankind in general...what can i do to coexist with man and live peacefully, in harmony and w/o judgment?

it's a journey we all must take, with or without a church/temple. it's a highly personal journey where i will stumble a million times, and ea time i pick myself up and dust myself off, i will have learned something more about myself and the person next to me. and ea time i err and learn, humility and grace is quietly internalized and embraced.

i take all i have learned, and when i am nursing, i can share my journey with my patient. that is my spirituality. holistic nursing.

in answer to the question.

religion is not needed to be a good nurse.

spirituality is.

peace.

leslie

[ZASHAGALKA, RN]

but would you retain a lawyer who could win your case, even if it infringed on the practice of immorality?

Great question! I guess the answer would depend up how badly I wanted to win, and how much morality would be infringed upon.

For example: the major experience I have with Courts is divorce and custody. Would I let a lawyer lie about my ex, if I knew it would win me the case? No, that wouldn't be worth it to me, because I have an understanding of the universe that 'you get what you give' although I believe, 'you get what you give, exponentially.'

Now, would I let a lawyer cut a corner on a rule that I didn't think much about, if that won me the case? Sure. If it didn't violate my personal ethics - and it obviously doesn't bother my lawyer's personal ethics - I would take such a victory: and think my lawyer shrewd for the effort.

I 'get' and agree what you are saying: that our care should be 'holistic'. But that doesn't mean that we, per se, HAVE to be spiritual ourselves to address spirituality in others. At least not on anything approaching parity. Otherwise, as I said much earlier in this thread: if that is the case, Catholics should only be cared for by Catholic nurses, Lutherans by Lutherans, etc.

We DO have resources at our disposal. In any case, people come to us in order to fix their bodies and minds. We must ABSOLUTELY be proficient in taking care of those. I do feel that is our over-riding imperative. That is not to say that we should ignore the 'souls' of our patients, but it's a simple acknowledgment that saving their 'souls' is NOT why people tend to use hospitals or seek nursing care.

You should have enough ethics and integrity to be able to address the 'spiritual' needs of your pts, but I think it goes too far to attempt to measure any sort of spiritual 'parity' in you, as a result, - or as a standard of your ability as a nurse.

I agree that we bring our spiritual values and experiences to our jobs. This is why I think it is silly for our leaders to try to define things like 'caring theory' - every nurse is so individual with those characteristics; it is impossible to define a standard that could be accepted by most or even a plurality of nurses.

But, let's be clear: I work in critical care BECAUSE my pts are critically ill. And some work in NICU to take care of BABIES. Just as we bring our own spiritual backgrounds, we also bring our own technical expertise. My pt doesn't need me to be outstanding at all kinds of nursing if they are critically ill; they need me to be outstanding at critical care. If their grand-daughter should need NICU services, it's OK that I outsource that to somebody that has the background to address those needs. And the same is true with 'spirituality'.

Like the ethical car mechanic that doesn't really know what he's doing under the hood - before we bring 'holistic' care to our bedsides, we need to at least be the right nurse to address the specific needs that brought those pts to our bedsides in the first place.

And it is THOSE characteristics that I would define as what makes a 'good' nurse.

Sorry so long.

~faith,

Timothy.

[VivaLasViejas, ASN, RN]

Now THIS is exactly the kind of deep and thought-provoking discussion that keeps threads going long past their average lifespans..........Tim and Leslie have added some terrific food for thought here. Thanks to both of you!

[leslie :-D]

My pt doesn't need me to be outstanding at all kinds of nursing if they are critically ill; they need me to be outstanding at critical care. If their grand-daughter should need NICU services, it's OK that I outsource that to somebody that has the background to address those needs. And the same is true with 'spirituality'.

when your critically ill patient is feeling fearful, anxious, hopeless, it truly is just as critical that these feelings are addressed; as much as the pathological. it is unabashedly critical that your pt's physiologic needs are met as much as his emotional/mental needs. there is much corroborative data that supports a direct relationship between mind and body.

our bodies create physiologic stressors in response to our mental anguish. these stressors cause htn, mi's, ha's, n/v, anorexia, etc.

we have all witnessed pts literally die in response to their hopelessness, just as we've seen pts rally when they've been hopeful and determined.

and i do agree that spirituality is uniquely individual and immeasurable.

but i do believe that ea of us has a certain amt of spirituality, obviously some more than others.

if, as nurses, we can apply sensitivity, empathy, good will, compassion, then we will have utilized only some elements of spirituality, but it's spiritual nonetheless.

yes, there are a few bad apples in nsg as there are in every profession. but i do feel that nsg is comprised of more spiritualists than not; and if a nurse does not feel comfortable in addressing their pt's spiritual or emotional distress, then the nurse would do everything in her power to find someone who could. and just by virtue of that alone, again, is exercising yet another quality of spirituality.

i think you and i are pretty much on the same page.

leslie

[ZASHAGALKA, RN]

i think you and i are pretty much on the same page.

leslie

Yes, I think we are on the same page and just discussing the punctuation and overall grammar.

Let me say this: I think that MOST TO WELL NIGH all people, nurses or otherwise, possess within them the 'spirituality' to address the kinds of distress that you cite. Total narcissism is not only very rare, it's a mental pathological condition. Society would not develop if it routinely bred those that can't relate to others within society - and some level, and on the level you cite.

And specifically with nursing: I would think that you would have to have those qualities in relative abundance, if not to decide to apply in the first place, then to endure the indoctrination of nursing school. And certainly the indoctrination within our profession. We are literally INUNDATED with the philosophy that nursing is CARING.

I described this in another thread: CARING is the wheels on the car of nursing. Without it, it's not really a car. But, it's a mistake to then say NURSING IS THE WHEELS OF CARING. Too often, we sell ourselves short at the price of discount tires when our worth is more adequately measured in the value of retail autos, of which, those tires are only a part. An essential part, to be sure.

I agree: spirituality is a key component of nursing. But, for the record, I believe that THAT spirituality to be more universal than not. Or at least, more or less universal to nurses (exceptions aside). That being the case, the making of a 'good' nurse should be better defined by other characteristics than those that are more or less 'standard equipment'. Or should be.

~faith,

Timothy.

[Fox_RuN, BSN]

I am an atheist. I believe that I'm alone on my floor and probably in most of the hospital. I avoid the topic unless someone was to ask me dead on about my beliefs. There are many proudly religious nurses where I work (it's not even a religiously affiliated institution, but rather a large university hospital). I've been a nurse for a year, but I believe that I've earned the right to call myself a pretty good nurse. I leave my shift exhausted and most of my patients satisfied (I've received 5 awards for patient satisfaction in 8 months), knowing I did the best I could for them, despite their religious affiliation, cultural beliefs, racist attitudes, etc...

It was hilarious this one time... this religious elderly gentleman and his wife and were watching the news while I was getting vitals. Richard Dawkins (one of my heroes), a proud atheist and evolutionary biologist, was on the television and the wife says to the husband, "Look honey! There's an atheist on the television!" as though some exotic yet grotesque animal had just appeared. I had to start coughing to cover up my laughter...

I'm not fazed.. I know I'm the odd one out most of the time (except when I was in Portland....ahhhhhh...a young vegan atheist's paradise... I even saw a nurse with tattoos everywhere visible except face and hands! So cool)

[xtxrn, ASN, RN]

Respect your beliefs, Fox RuN...

For others, thread from May 2006....???? time to resurrect????

[Fox_RuN, BSN]

Respect your beliefs, Fox RuN...

For others, thread from May 2006....???? time to resurrect????

Oh, I do. I'm willing to open up a bit more about it now that I've been on my floor for a while and people know me. I really don't want to offend anybody, but I would certainly stick up for myself if given a hard time. And yes, I was sad to find the 'atheist/agnostic' thread closed...

[xtxrn, ASN, RN]

Oh, I do. I'm willing to open up a bit more about it now that I've been on my floor for a while and people know me. I really don't want to offend anybody, but I would certainly stick up for myself if given a hard time. And yes, I was sad to find the 'atheist/agnostic' thread closed...

There have been some good threads that are respectful of those who post.... however, sometimes it gets ugly, and the threads are closed.

[Godisthere]

Religion is not needed 2b a good nurse.

But spirituality is........ :)

If ur confused....

Religion= an organization that financially benefits by its members by charging for tithes and sacrements that really lure you away from God.

Spirituality= one's beliefs in that there is a God and that you follow His words, the Bible.

For example, I believe in John 3:16.

My church is a field or the top of a mountain, or a congested highway, basically anywhere I pray.....

I pay my tithes when I make ppl smile....

If you research the origination of sacrements, or other wierd religious rules...you should be able to see the difference between spirituality and religion.....:)

Jesus loves you.....!!

[leslie :-D]

Religion is not needed 2b a good nurse.

But spirituality is........ :)

If ur confused....

Religion= an organization that financially benefits by its members by charging for tithes and sacrements that really lure you away from God.

Spirituality= one's beliefs in that there is a God and that you follow His words, the Bible.

.

i do agree with you, that there is a clear distinction between religion and spirituality.

my distinction is:

- religion is a type of reverence that is learned from an external source, e.g., church, pastor, bible.

whereas spirituality is a type of reverence that is developed from an internal source.

i am not religious, but am highly spiritual...according to how i define it, which is my truth.

i find it interesting that when it comes to differentiating the 2, we would likely find many more subjective interpretations.:)

leslie

[rtmike2002]

I'm quite irreligious. I have been almost totally turned off by the behaviors of most mainstream religions, but I am very spritual. I'm a new nurse, but I feel like I'm doing a good job.

Mike