Religion, culture and nursing - page 4

i'm with you all the way, ocn.
and while folks do have a right to express how they feel (about others refusing txs), personally, i find it insensitive and disrespectful.

we need to live our lives according to how we see fit, and shouldn't have to answer to anyone else...
but would hope that the person considering no txs, would consider those close to him/her, and how it would affect them.

leslie

I kind of hate to split hairs and call you out, but I'm going to anyway......your last sentence is you expressing how you feel about others refusing treatments...in my opinion. Insensitive and disrespectful?

I suppose it's how it's put...whether it's generic or specifically about a person, whom you are speaking to (talking on a message board to peers or directly to the person refusing), and the language that it's used whether it's insenstive and disrespectful?

honey, i'm sorry, but i've read and reread your post and still am not understanding your point of contention.

my last statement was a gen'l observation, that those refusing tx, ideally, should consider the reactions of their loved ones.
how would they react to you/me refusing tx?
if i was dx'd w/a life-altering disease and wanted to forego tx, i'm sure that would devastate my family.
and i need to consider how that plays into the whole scheme of events, before i check out of life.

so again, i guess i'm asking, what do you see as insensitive and disrespectful?
(i do apologize for being so thick-headed.)

leslie

Let me clarify if I can. Again, I'm splitting hairs.

You said "and while folks do have a right to express how they feel (about others refusing txs), personally, i find it insensitive and disrespectful....."

Then you give what I feel is you expressing how you feel about others refusing treatment: " but would hope that the person considering no txs, would consider those close to him/her, and how it would affect them."

I personally don't find this disrespectful or insensitive....there was a question mark in my post because I was asking you think it's insensitive and disrepectful on your part.

If I'm not making sense, we will drop it, because as I said, it's just me splitting hairs I suppose.

i 'think' i understand what you're asking:
that, is it disrespectful/insensitive of ME to opine that others (refusing tx) should consider their loved ones?

well, maybe it is...not sure.
but to me, there's a difference between saying refusing is whacky, ridiculous...vs encouraging the refuser, to take into account the feelings of others, and how they would respond.

as you stated, maybe it's in the delivery and more important, what the refuser has to lose when making such an extreme decision.
IF it results in refuser reconsidering, then i'm ok w/disrespect, etc.

am i understanding you, tweety?

leslie

Yep, we are understanding each other now.

It's more acceptable to wonder if they are considering the impact on their family than it is to call them utterly ridiculous.....even though both are expressing how one feels and are not accepting of the idea that the person is not accepting treatment.

Still, it's possible to be supportive of the person and feel this way, because we know it's their body and their life and freedom to choose.

i need to clarify myself.
i am not opposed to being honest w/the refuser.
but again, it's in the delivery, i think.
saying, 'i'm not understanding why/how you feel', seems less threatening to the refuser, and hopefully would invite further conversation.
but calling their decision "ridiculous" i think, would put the refuser on the defensive, further inhibiting productive discourse.

now, if one doesn't give a darn about how the receiver hears it, then have a field day.
but for the sake of wanting to understand, then diplomacy and sensitivity is the way to go.

leslie

eta: oh...and i don't think the refuser is going to feel very supported if they hear "ridiculous", "whacky" or other unfavorable desciptors.
but that's me...

It's something to think about. Take care of your patient the best way you can or allowed to do. Be courteous. Don't judge.

I'm going to end this once and for all and defend my choice. Like i have said before i don't know if all Pagans feel like this or think like this. Pagans try to life a Holistic Life and chemical free life closer to nature. Now it doesn't mean we wont seek treatment if i break a bone it would be dumb not to. Now if i have a cold or flu i try to heal natural unless it comes in form of a infection. Then of course i have seek help from a my holistic dr or my primary care dr. I always look for alternative medicine first before seek the western medicine.

If i go to a dentist i don't use any harsh chemicals ( I don't take shots) I use oil of clove for numbing and for pain after the dentist.

Now for life threatening Disease's the deal and why i carry a DNR. Back in the early 90's i served in the military. After coming back i contracted a disease from the region They call it Gulf War Syndrome. I suffer from that i have to do breathing treatments 2 times a day plus i carry an inhailer. My bones and joints hurt all the time and my hands swell that i have to wear braces and finger splints at night to stop trigger finger there's a list. So yes if i came down to a life threatening disease i would not seek treatment my immune system couldn't take it so either way I'm dead and i except that that's also why i carry a DNR

I still go to work every day they say i can get on disability if i wanted to but I'm not like that if i can still work i will work. I'm a inactive nurse right now and there's a lot of reasons why I'm still not nursing but truth be told. With what i have going on i felt that i could not give people the best care anymore. So i thought about what i could do in Nursing to help people.

You all know once a nurse always a nurse type thing. So there i was watching a Batman Cartoon Yea i watch cartoons and Batman asked his friends why do they have him around he has no super powers he's not like them and i think superman said You have a brain and with that brain you can do things we can't. So then it hit me growing up my mom and dad taught us about herbs and oils and how to make teas and things.

And this is apart of me so it hit me while i was at my Dr's office they have these pictures of nurses and they tell their story on why the became a they became nurse's and there's this picture of a lady who is a Holistic Nurse so i asked them how do i find her.
They told me you need to call this number and i left my number and i spoke to her and wham Holistic is my calling. Well i hope i cleared some things up. It's more about me then my religion. And like i said my family members know and they are ok with it And it's not about me wanting to live or die It's more of excepting and being ok with it and living life everyday like it's your last. These are my thoughts use them as you wish. Anthony

I am a very staunch atheist and I have struggled at times with JW's not wanting to give blood, when, in my opinion - they are choosing death over a bunch of superstitious hooey! But, whatever floats their boat.

I have had issues with patients directly asking me my religious thoughts when it came to loved ones dying and such... I do my best to skirt the issue, but when pressed and I'm unable to maneuver around it, I will tell people that I am an atheist. Because of that, I have had patients/families request to have a new nurse because they felt my care would be inadequate, that they feared I wouldn't care for their "spiritual needs" appropriately, or that they did not want to be in my proximity.

I decline to pray with families when asked, and I politely step out when they doing rituals, if it is safe to do so.

Have you head of the book title "The spirit catches you and you fall down"? It's a book about the crash of culture/religion and healthcare. It's a good book. Check it out!!!

"Also, what religion are you?"

Secular Humanist, in other words: none.

"Are there certain procedures or practices in nursing and/or medicine that offend you or restrict the care you provide?"

No.

"Would you ever share your faith with your patients?"

Not in my current acute care setting. I did when I worked home health as an aide and a client wanted to talk about how secularists view things like evolution and the historicity of Jesus and the bible.

"Have you cared for patients of a religion that has restrictions?"

Sure, all the time. Dietary restrictions for example.

"What about other cultures?"

Yep.