Up-credentialing: Why the move to the BSN is inevitable. - page 2

by chuckster 3,313 Views | 22 Comments

As this article from yesterday's paper points out, more and more employers are requiring bachelorís degree for entry-level jobs that clearly do not require the credential. As you read the article, it becomes ever more apparent... Read More


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    There have been numerous discussions regarding the move to a BSN for nurses. Some are against this for various reasons, but we can't deny that education is a positive for the profession. Furthermore, nursing is global, and the standard for entry to practise as a registered nurse is the BSN in many nations such as Australia, Canada, and the UK. It is inevitable that the US will follow.

    Another positive to enforcing a BSN is that this limits the hoards of people into the nursing profession. Yes, we need nurses, but we need competent nurses. Many are attracted to the notion of becoming a nurse because they can finish in two years. Up the ante to four years at an accredited institution and the workforce dynamic changes. In Canada, all diploma RNs were grandfathered. Recent grads as of 2009 in most areas required the BSN.
    Last edit by joanna73 on Feb 24, '13
    BSNbeDONE, SE_BSN_RN, and NurseGuyBri like this.
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    Quote from gabulldogs

    1. Neglect of Residents (no snacks, pressure sores, no baths, skin breakdown etc......)
    2. Not enough help at NIGHT. Adm. decided to cut down to only 3 aides/60 and 2 charge nurses.
    3. LPNs are made to take call on every off days because Aides call in all the time. So we go in for Aide Work. (which contradicts them saying the census is low so they had to cut back, because we get paid time/half when we have to go in.)
    4. Adm. makes Mandatory Meetings at 2pm and expects night shift to be there regardless if they just clocked out that morning at 8am and have to be back at work that night at 7pm.
    5. Even if you have a perfect attendance, if you miss the meetings you get points against you and 20 points means termination.

    I (as many) came in hoping to make a difference but only to have our good drained from all this silly stuff.

    I do feel my License is in jeopardy I know I need to get out of there.
    Wow, no good! No good. I can't help you on the first one- My SNF always had 3 aides/60 and 2 charge nurses at night, and we do mighty fine, I am lobbying for more, of course, but.... Cannot help you there.
    Now, as far as neglect, call and mandatory meetings, that's insane!
    First I'm guessing you don't live in Virginia because it is illegal for any licensed healthcare professional to report any signs of neglect immediately to an authority.
    Second, You cannot fix this- if your management knows this AND IS NOT ATTEMPTING TO FIX it, you must get out!
    Why are there no snacks? Do they not put them out or are the nurse aides not passing them and the charge nurses don't care...
    Why are there no baths? Are the aides not doing them and the Charge nurses don't follow up? Why are LPN's on call for CNA's?
    Who makes mandatory 2pm meetings for all staff? (oops sorry on that one, I do, but only like once every 3 months).
    I'm very concerned here. I'll tell you if I knew where you worked, I'd make the call myself. Before you jump the gun and go nutty, make sure that this is not a perceived problem, that it is an actual problem. Give me some more 411- we'd be more able to help if we know WHY these things are occurring and if mgmt is just ignoring them. If it is this bad, make sure you know YOU cannot fix it!
    SE_BSN_RN and joanna73 like this.
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    Quote from gabulldogs
    Currently still LPN in LTC night shift. Conditions here are horrible!!!!!!!! Moral is rapidly on the decline........Good people are rapidly leaving and I'm not far behind. BUT I just can't leave without trying to help the residents and the other workers.........I've worked in many many many different fields but have never experienced such horrible treatment of employees. I KNOW IN MY HEART I NEED TO DO SOMETHING. JUST NEED TO DO IT RIGHT. PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!

    LIST OF BAD:

    1. Neglect of Residents (no snacks, pressure sores, no baths, skin breakdown etc......)
    2. Not enough help at NIGHT. Adm. decided to cut down to only 3 aides/60 and 2 charge nurses.
    3. LPNs are made to take call on every off days because Aides call in all the time. So we go in for Aide Work. (which contradicts them saying the census is low so they had to cut back, because we get paid time/half when we have to go in.)
    4. Adm. makes Mandatory Meetings at 2pm and expects night shift to be there regardless if they just clocked out that morning at 8am and have to be back at work that night at 7pm.
    5. Even if you have a perfect attendance, if you miss the meetings you get points against you and 20 points means termination.

    I (as many) came in hoping to make a difference but only to have our good drained from all this silly stuff.

    I do feel my License is in jeopardy I know I need to get out of there.
    Get out, run, and don't look back! Try HHC or a clinic. Go back to school if you can and get your RN.
    BSNbeDONE and joanna73 like this.
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    Quote from HM-8404
    I hear many ADN's saying a BSN is unnecessary. Not a single one of them has been able to tell me how requiring a BSN would hurt nursing as a profession.
    If you don't know the difference between "unnecessary" and "BSN hurts nursing as a profession" I'd ask for my money back for my BSN.

    I imagine we will go to BSN only at some point. All the cool kids are doing it. I think it's a mistake and will hurt healthcare as a business, as people with bachelors are not willing to put up with as much crap as someone without one (you know, since we're so educated and all. They should really add into their little exit surveys how many new grads that quit quickly were BSN's versus ADN's. Someone has probably already done this. I'm curious.) You'll end up crying "shortage" again, and for real this time. I just hope somehow an ASN is grandfathered in, as I don't feel that I need a BSN for my job. I already have a bachelors and a doctorate in something else. I've had all the well rounded schooling I can stand, thankyouverymuch.

    I also suspect the requirements for the jobs described in the article will eventually trend the other way and employers will start screeching "on the job training again," once they can't hire anyone for peanuts.
    Last edit by redhead_NURSE98! on Feb 24, '13
    RN/Mom, KariCraw31, and VivaLasViejas like this.
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    Quote from VivaLasViejas
    This is one of the reasons why I'm leaving nursing if I can't stay at my current job until I'm ready to stop working. With student loans I'm still repaying and no desire whatsoever to attack O-Chem and Statistics at my age, I know I'm an endangered species: an ADN who made it into management on street smarts and sheer force of will. I cannot go back to the floor, and I'm not going back to school at this stage of life.

    What, I wonder, is to become of ADNs and LPNs who, for whatever reason, are unable, unwilling, or can't afford to go back to school? I, for one, don't know how to do much of anything else---been a nurse for 16 years, and before that I was a factory shift supervisor, auto detailer, telemarketer (for about 4 hours), office worker, and SAHM. What is out there in this economy for someone like me, who is too young to retire and too old to be considered for many positions that I'd even bother to apply for?

    It sounds negative, I'm sure, but I'm just being realistic. There are too many of my age-mates looking for jobs that aren't there for older and perhaps 'less-educated' people (sorry, but as one of the only two members of my family who graduated from college, it's hard for me to think of myself that way). I don't even want to think about working fast food or retail, but if it's what I've got to do to survive, well, it's "Welcome to WalMart. How may I help you today?"
    This is why a person, no matter what field they work in, must keep their eyes on the future. It's just not realistic anymore, if it ever was, to just get a job and become complacent and expect things will never change.

    This is why I will start working on my BSN as soon as I finish my ADN. I had not really considered it when I decided to become a nurse, but now that I see the opportunities that are out there for me as a nurse, that I can work towards even a doctorate part-time while still working and spending time with my family and that it will be necessary to achieve a higher degree so that I won't be left behind and so that I can continue to be able to work well into my sixties.

    I am older than many new grad ADN's and because I know I do not want to work as a floor nurse in my fifties and knowing that the retirement age is getting pushed back further and further, I need to plan appropriately for my future. So after my BSN I will gather vital experience as a floor nurse as I work part-time towards my Masters. Working as an NP will be less physically demanding or I can work as an educator, so I have options for the future. I will start working on this now so I won't be in my late forties and realize that I need to make some major changes. I can start now and do a little at a time and not feel like I am missing out on life.

    We are lucky that education is so easily accesable to us now...we can work full-time and go to school part-time, take classes on-line, work towards advancing our future and still maintain a family and personal life.

    Statistics and chem may seem like insurmountable obstacles, but you are only as old as you think you are. I have seen a woman in her 80's walk across the stage to recieve her Ph'd...it was amazing to see someone breach the age issues as well as generational issues that she must have faced. I have always loved learning and have never felt as if it was something I was forced to do but rather something is necessary for life and something that I love and I will forever consider myself a student, even when I am 90. When I saw that lady walk across the stage I knew that I would never have any excuses.
    NRSKarenRN, dudette10, BSNbeDONE, and 2 others like this.
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    Quote from tellis6645
    I dont agree with that. I would be very interested to see where someone can get an ADN in only 18 months.
    There are such programs in my area. They are "for-profit" schools, such as ECPI (MCI), ITT Tech, Centura, etc. -- not well-respected, but legal. Their graduates are awarded an Associates's Degree and can sit for NCLEX-RN boards. One of those programs was advertising that they can be completed in 15 months!

    Nurses graduating from the better ADN programs should be outraged that such programs are allowed to exist, as they are hurting your reputation and contributing to the de-valuing of an ADN education.
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    Quote from joanna73
    Furthermore, nursing is global, and the standard for entry to practise as a registered nurse is the BSN in many nations such as Australia, Canada, and the UK. It is inevitable that the US will follow.
    Australia recognizes ADN nurses from the U.S. Also, the BSN requirements in Australia and the UK is 3 years versus 4 in the U.S. I'm not sure about Canada. Australia and UK qualifications are regarded as ADN equivalent when evaluated for U.S. credentials. One of the problems with comparing nurses globally is that the scopes of practice and education requirements vary greatly. Most nurses outside of the U.S. do not require maternity rotations, and they are therefore deemed lacking when trying to come into the U.S. U.S. nurses, on the other hand, do not meet the clinical hours required by New Zealand and are therefore deemed inadequate. Global comparisons, when talking about degrees, are kind of hard to accurately compare when all factors are considered. Just my opinion, and I'm not in any way trying to be dismissive about your observations.

    On the other hand, in my region in Alabama, nurses come out of school making $18-$18.50/hour rather they have an ADN or a BSN. They use to pay $0.50 more per hour for BSN's, but even that has changed. Most hospitals around the area have also cut back or cut out scholarships, so the nurses no longer have an incentive to go back for their BSN. On top of that, the hospitals say "BSN preferred" but you have one school popping out maybe 30-40 BSN nurses a semester, and about 200 nurses a semester coming out of the area's ADN schools.

    The hospitals have their pick and can get away with paying little, so they're going to continue to get ADN nurses until they decide to do something different. They can't give ADN nurses the "go back to school or else" threat because the nurses will just be like "good luck filling all of your vacancies!"
    redhead_NURSE98! likes this.
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    Actually, some of these kids are taking college courses while in high school. My cousin's daughter graduated from high school in May and by the end of the Sumer, had her college degree. I was shocked because I didn't know there were any such program that allowed dual studies. Of course her degree wasn't in nursing but times have seemed to advance a little without letting us in on it. So 18 months is nothing today. These kids are actually leaving us behind.

    On another note, there are actually BSN programs that require no math at all. One is American Sentinel University. It's all essays. It's worth a peek. 10 courses, 8 weeks each. Now their MSN requires Stats. So if its math that's holding you back, have a look at ASU.
    NRSKarenRN likes this.
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    (This is a discussion on LPN phase out d/t Medicare regulations??? in LPN / LVN Corner, part of General Nursing ... Today in a meeting, my nurse manager said that d/t medicare compensation changes, the private...

    by Salesman217 Feb 25

    Today in a meeting, my nurse manager said that d/t medicare compensation changes, the private hospitals in our area (Cleveland Clinic, University Hospitals) are laying off LPNs from the bedside, that all bedside nurses would be RNs. I'm an RN in the VA hospital, but my wife teaches an NCLEX review course for both LPNs and RNs and she would be interested in this information. She stated this, not in the context of the rumors we've been hearing forever, but stated it as a fact. Anybody else hear about this?)





    I copied the above from the LPN/lLVN corner on the ALLNURSES website. I still maintain my LPN license even though I became an RN 3 years ago. So, being that I was an LPN for way more than 20 years before going back for RN, I'm still very interested in the issues that they have. I feel it's all relative because of the trickle-down effect. If LPNs are phased out, guess who will be taking their places? The ADN. So, the BSN will take the place of ADN, and before you know it, the MSN will be required as charge nurse, with the Ph-D as manager. It may be an exaggerated statement now, but........
    Last edit by BSNbeDONE on Feb 26, '13
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    Quote from tellis6645
    I agree that BSN is going to be the new normal. This is because there are just more and more nurses out there looking for work. Extra education never hurts. Im an ADN right now, but looking forward to going back for another 15 months and getting my BSN.



    I dont agree with that. I would be very interested to see where someone can get an ADN in only 18 months. Where I went to school not only did you have to do all your preqs, but a student wasnt even considered unless they had all their non nursing courses done as well (chem, A&P, micro, english, math ect). That took 2 years before even starting the program, which then takes another 2 (scheduled, you cant cram and get it all done in 18 months). ADN programs are very hard to get into, and almost unheard of straight out of high school.
    There are several students in my class that graduated last May will all of their prereqs completed except Micro and something else. They are called duel enrollment students. They take college classes at the college and get college credit as well as high school credit for them. I was slightly mistaken about the 18 months part, it is 21 months in a traditional ADN program. In my area to enroll you have have basic Biology completed and be eligible to enroll in Pre-Cal. Most students either take these the summer before Fall admission or during high school. You can take all of the other courses concurrently with your nursing classes. I know several that have done that


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