To all "medical coverage is a privilege" folks:

Nurses Activism

Published

You're presented with a five year-old who probably has appendicitis. The family is poor, does not have medical insurance, and they only have a small amount of money to cover diagnostics and treatment of their child. (Any veterinarians on this forum?)

Because of the OMG free market stuff, you can remove the child's appendix for a minimum of...$5,000. However, this child's family cannot afford that and are not eligible for that much credit.

...what do you do? What if you're presented with ten such cases over the course of a month?

Specializes in Psych , Peds ,Nicu.
Maybe I am missing something here because I have seen this in several posts...but you do not pay higher health premiums to cover for those without health insurance or those on medicaid/medicare, that is paid through the government via our taxes. Your private health insurance costs have nothing to do with it.

But there you are wrong because in order to recoup uncoverd costs of the uninsured who do not qualify for some form of assistance , then the cost is passed onto the customers , we then pay that through increased premiums .

To borrow another posters phrase " it burns my soup " , the group that could afford to pay for insurance but choose to shift the risk and therefore cost to me .

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But there you are wrong because in order to recoup uncoverd costs of the uninsured who do not qualify for some form of assistance , then the cost is passed onto the customers , we then pay that through increased premiums .

To borrow another posters phrase " it burns my soup " , the group that could afford to pay for insurance but choose to shift the risk and therefore cost to me .

No, because the loss of uncovered costs is covered by the privately owned hospitals, not by the insurance companies, which are completely different entities. And if hospitals are increasing their costs to recoup losses thus causing insurance companies to increase their costs, then that is rediculous because both already charge prices that are way out of control, but are allowed to take advantage of the public because we can't go without medical coverage so they can get away with charging whatever they want...kind of reminds me of the gas situation we are going through as well.

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I would venture to say that most of us really don't worry about how they will pay their bill, we just take care of them.

God forbid you ever have to go to the emergeny room with a non-emergency related illness that you can't afford to have treated at the local after-hours clinic because the cost is $80 just to be seen, which you can't afford, you don't even know how you are going to afford the medications they may prescribe to you. Even though you are working your butt off working, taking care of your family, cutting all the extra costs you can just to make it through, are going to school full-time so that one day you can have a better life and health insurance, have never done drugs or been arrested and have toughed out your sinus infection and bronchitis hoping it will go away but it doesn't and you find yourself sitting in the ER with a bunch of actual emergency patients and you feel like dirt and the staff treats you like you are scum and a total waste of their time. They gave me five prescriptions and I could only afford two, one was antibiotics, the other was an inhaler ($50 generic). I hope it lasts because I don't know how I will be able to afford another, besides the fact that I don't know how I would even get another prescription.

There was a NP around here that would see people without insurance at a lower cost based on your income but she stopped, think she got flooded and just couldn't do it anymore. I went there once and had to wait 2 hrs and 40 minutes for a rushed 5 min physical and a TB test, for $20 bucks.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
No, because the loss of uncovered costs is covered by the privately owned hospitals, not by the insurance companies, which are completely different entities. And if hospitals are increasing their costs to recoup losses thus causing insurance companies to increase their costs, then that is rediculous because both already charge prices that are way out of control, but are allowed to take advantage of the public because we can't go without medical coverage so they can get away with charging whatever they want...kind of reminds me of the gas situation we are going through as well.

The costs of care for those who don't pay are shifted to those do, this includes adding these costs to insurance premiums. According to one source, this shift adds $1,100 to the average family plan.

The Cost Shift from the Uninsured

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The costs of care for those who don't pay are shifted to those do, this includes adding these costs to insurance premiums. According to one source, this shift adds $1,100 to the average family plan.

The Cost Shift from the Uninsured

I find it interesting that you quoted a site that is pro universal type health care coverage, and pardon me if I am not worried that it is costing an extra $100 a month on the average family plan, that is less than what the "average" american famil pays on coffee and eating macdonalds each month, when there are families out there who can't even afford minimal health care for crying out loud!!!! Are you kidding me?!

And it ****** me off that the "average family" that they have a picture of on the website you referred to can afford what appears to be a very nice home, nice clothes, can afford to get their children hair cuts, can afford to adopt a child and can apparently afford to over feed their obese son....how much will his future healthcare related to his obesity cost us in the future?

I am getting totally PO'd with this...it is blatantly obvious that the majority of people that are giving their opinion on here against health care being basic human right have never had to choose between gas to get to school or your inhaler prescription. If you have never been in the predicatment of being sick and having no health insurance then you just have no clue what you are talking about.

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Specializes in Critical Care.

Regardless of the "slant" a source may have the story is the same:

Study: Average Family Pays $1G a Year to Cover the Uninsured | Fox News

I guess I'm not quite getting your concerns. Are you against Universal Healthcare because there are some people who can't afford healthcare?

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Specializes in Psych , Peds ,Nicu.
no, because the loss of uncovered costs is covered by the privately owned hospitals, not by the insurance companies, which are completely different entities as i thought this was obvious , i did see the necessity to spell this out. and if hospitals are increasing their costs to recoup losses which iis what i was saying thus causing insurance companies to increase their costs, then that is rediculous because both already charge prices that are way out of control, but are allowed to take advantage of the public because we can't go without medical coverage so they can get away with charging whatever they want...kind of reminds me of the gas situation we are going through as well.

nb . i am not saying that people who cannot afford care should not recieve care , i am saying however , if people want a privately funded healthcare system them all those who can afford must pay for insurance , because they are increasing the cost of my insurance . so unless or until these people sign a legally binding contract that spells out that they take full resposibility for paying for their healthcare , have no claim on government funds to cover the cost of their care and not be able to have this debt wiped out by bankrupcy they should only be able to recieve healthcare from providers who are willing to take them on under these conditions .

again i will offer this link to a site which has a card i would expect them to carry

google image result for http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/7/a/t/4/nobamacare.jpg

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Specializes in LTC, Rehab, CCU, Alzheimers, Med-Surg.

Why get health insurance when you can get treated in the ER for free?

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Specializes in LTC, Rehab, CCU, Alzheimers, Med-Surg.
I certainly agree with the first sentence quoted , but the second para I wholehearted disagree with unless you are absolutely unable to pay for your insurance ( due to proved low income or physical or mental disability that stops you from being able to earn a income ). I have two reasons for this position

1) The choice to be uninsured does not get rid of the risk or liability that a healthcare problem would cause it simply places the liability on me , as I have to finance the uninsured expenses . This risk increases my private insurance costs.

2) by reducing the pool of insured , you reduce the number of people who share the costs of the risk the insurance policy covers , again raising the costs of my private insurance premiums .

I don't think adults should be forced to pay higher insurance premiums to cover those who choose not to have health care insurance when they can afford it !. It may be easier on their pockets but not mine .

Why should I care that YOU have to pay more for your insurance? As long as there is no incentive for me to get insurance, why should I? Why bother paying 100$ or more a month if I know that when I do get sick I will not have to pay my bills due to other government regulations?

Are you suggesting that you want to tell people that they have to buy insurance so that you don't have to pay as much for your insurance?

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What about those like me who can't afford it? It would be the choice between taking food from charities or insurance, since it's the same cost as my food budget. I like to reserve the food boxes for those who are truly destitute.

Under the PPACA if you make under 133% of the FPL you qualify for Medicaid. Those with incomes between 133%-400$ of the FPL receive a subsidy (on sliding scale according to income) to purchase health insurance in the exchanges.

http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/7962-02.pdf

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why should i care that you have to pay more for your insurance? as long as there is no incentive for me to get insurance, why should i? why bother paying 100$ or more a month if i know that when i do get sick i will not have to pay my bills due to other government regulations?

are you suggesting that you want to tell people that they have to buy insurance so that you don't have to pay as much for your insurance?

i think this is a simple assertion. healthcare (emergency, preventive, specialty, etc) is typically accessed through health insurance in the us.

do you think that people should receive health care regardless of their ability to pay?

you can certainly argue emtala is a government regulation (enacted by president reagan) that compels hospitals to treat patients regardless of ability to pay. however, the individual mandate is a government regulation that compels individuals to pay for their care by purchasing health insurance, so that tax payers are not left holding the bag.

"when the uninsured are unable to pay for care they receive, that uncompensated care is paid for through a patchwork of federal, state, and private funds. the bulk of such care is funded by the government and is crucial to the strength of the nation’s public hospitals and clinics, which provide most of the uncompensated care the uninsured receive."

in addition, "uncompensated care costs for direct service programs, such as community health centers, are funded almost completely by public dollars."

source: the kaiser commission on medicaid and the uninsured (2007)

http://www.kff.org/uninsured/upload/7451-03.pdf

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Specializes in Psych , Peds ,Nicu.
Why should I care that YOU have to pay more for your insurance? As long as there is no incentive for me to get insurance, why should I? Why bother paying 100$ or more a month if I know that when I do get sick I will not have to pay my bills due to other government regulations?

Are you suggesting that you want to tell people that they have to buy insurance so that you don't have to pay as much for your insurance?

What I am suggesting , all too often in the debate regarding the financing of health care , the idea of personal responsibility for healthcare bills is brought up . Yet when that responsibility is turned back on those who choose not to insure themselves , they usually come up with the spurious argument that their behaviour has no effect upon any one else . I have simply pointed out the error in that belief , if you do not ensure that you can take personal responsibility for your bills that decision effects others .

NB . All along I have tried to make it clear , I support provision of healthcare to those who are unable due to handicap ( physical ,mental or financial ) , but NOT to those who shirk personal ressponsibility to ensure they can cover their healthcare bills whilst transferring the consequences of their selfish decision onto the rest of us . In those circumstances I say your damned right I am not happy to have to cover that cost !

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