Should Healthcare Be Funded As A Basic Human Right? - page 21

by jayp 40,858 Views | 210 Comments

The United States of America is a nation known and heralded worldwide for its democracy, freedom, and wealth. Through our commerce, we have become a prosperous nation. Through our commonalities we stand united. Through our... Read More


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    Here's an idea. Free healthcare for all. Need a Dr.? No problem the American taxpayer will cover the cost. Need a Viagra scrip. filled? Let us pay for it. How about birth control? Yep we'll get that too. Get drunk New Years Eve and by mid-Feb you realize you are pregnant and not ready for a kid? You got it. We'll pay to solve that too. The best part is you don't even have to be a citizen of the US to get these benefits.

    How will we pay for all of this you may ask. We will raise the taxes everyone that makes over $250,000 a year. Didn't they say that would raise an additional $80B a year? That will raise close to $219M a day. That's a lot of money. But wait, our gov't is currently spending almost 2.8 Billion dollars a day.

    If countries with a population equivalent to that of one of our States can do it why can't we with a population of over 300 Million? Also let's not factor in that a smaller percentage of their population is totally dependent their government.
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    Wow, I am reading back on this and the thread has gone so far off-track of what it was meant to be. The original question was whether or not healthcare was a basic human right. And if it is, should it be funded as one.

    I am Canadian and I am now working in the US. I have lived in and worked in both systems. Both are flawed. Both include much abuse. The town I grew up in made me nauseous in its abuse. Many received their welfare cheques, and worked under the table to pay for all the extras that my tax paying parents could not afford. The second of every month, go into the grocery/convenience store and what do you see? Carts with little ones sucking on fruit punch boxes, with KD and all the other high sodium low nutrient crap, and a couple cases of beer. Very little fresh produce. Next month, cycle starts again.
    Now on the other hand, my mother, as a very hard working single-mother waitress, required surgery on her knee. She was out of work for approximately 6 months to recover, and received welfare to support us. She only used it because she COULD NOT work, and when she was able to, back to work she went. So I am fully aware that not everyone abuses the system, but I am also aware that many do. I think welfare should be like unemployment. There should be a time limit that you can receive it, and if you are unable to work because of physical or mental limitations, then you fall under disability. I think welfare should come with yearly physicals or doctor evaluations to see if you are actually ABLE to work. And if you are, then maybe more can be done to help guide you to a job.
    As far as finances go, I have less than no clue how much it would cost to do all this. But I would much rather my taxes go towards all of the above so that those who can't support themselves get the help they need, and those who CAN work, get assistance to find it. But I am not ok with working my butt off to pay for those who won't lift a finger to help themselves. I am missing out on some of the best years of my child's life trying to support us and keep a roof over our heads and food in our bellies. I don't think its fair for some to do that while others don't (for all those who keep talking about 'fair shares').
    But again, when it comes to basic human rights, it gets to a point where its hard to draw a line. As others have mentioned, you might say being able to eat is a basic right. Having shelter. Or just look at the rest of Maslow's hierarchy I suppose.

    Do we draw the line at the physiological needs? Air, food, water, sleep, etc? Should we be provided with a bed, food, toilets? Or what if someone is challenged when it comes to excretion Ie requires IC's or colostomies or whatever. Should that be provided for them at no cost because being able to excrete is a basic human right?
    Or draw it at safety. Depending on the neighborhood you live in, maybe we should all get bodyguards, or everyone should have a gun to defend themselves, paid for by the government of course. Resources, like power, gas. Paid for? Family! I think there should be government sponsored matchmaking services to find everyone their soulmate! Its only fair, right?
    Love and belonging- Should I be provided with some sex toys, paid for by the government? Should I also be provided with friends?

    I'm sure you get where I am going with this. No matter what you give, someone is always going to want more. And when others think their requests are crazy, they will be called uncaring, unempathetic, selfish, etc, for not wanting to provide people with their basic needs.

    Slippery slope.
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    There is truly a lack of education in this country regarding universal healthcare. There is not going to be one federal system, just like there isn't one system now. Each state runs their own Medicaid and CHIP programs with many different eligibility requirements, copayments, premiums, etc. some states will have federal programs, some states will have government programs, etc. the difference will be ACCESS.

    In Canada, everyone has health insurance, some people pay higher copays than others. Some medications are covered, some are not. The tax rate in Canada is lower than it is in the US, wages are higher, vacation pay, sick pay, maternity leave, etc are better than the US. They have the same fundamental freedoms we do as well. Just one example. There is also the UK, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, France, Japan, and so on.

    My employer sponsored plan does not cover Viagra, or levitra or Celebrex, or Pristiq for my husband, should I go on??

    The community hospital where I live is owned by a gagillion dollar corporation 8 states away. The CEO of that company has a net worth of $10 million dollars. Assets, not just annual income, assets, free and clear. 4 hours in the ER the other day, 1 bag of NSS, 1 finger stick, 3 minutes w the doc, 5 minutes w the nurse, $3000. I have insurance, before I left, they asked for my $300 copay without even knowing the usual and customary fee my insurance will approve. They asked 3 times and would not unlock the door for me to leave, even after I explained why. Greed, that's the problem. If I make $1000 a month, no insurance and have $10 a month extra to pay the bill, it would take a long time.

    I also know that this particular hospital gets bonuses in tax relief for treating Medicaid and uninsured patients in the community. And they get tax write offs if the patients don't pay the bills. But the money doesn't go to the patients, it goes to the corporation. That's the problem.

    We're already paying for people's healthcare, it's just crappy, short term, emergency, care which is overpriced. The US pays more of its GDP on healthcare than any 1st world country and is ranked almost last. That's sad.
    tewdles likes this.
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    Yes - basic care for all, and free health care for all children under the age of 10.

    Now tell me how this is a bad thing or not cost effective, primary and preventative care is the smart money.

    You don't wait for the car to run out of oil then blow up before you do something............ a regular service and timely checks save potential $1000's in costs
    MandaRN94 likes this.
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    Jewels26, you make some excellent points I would just like to add though, in the state where I live if I had to be off of work for 6 months because I have a medical emergency, I would get no assistance. I wouldn't qualify for unemployment because I wouldn't be "available for work" due to the illness, I wouldn't qualify for SS disability because I don't qualify for that until I'm off over a year, I don't qualify for welfare for several months because my prior months incomes were too high, I haven't accrued enough sick time at my job, STD doesn't kick in for 6 weeks, and only after I've been there a year, and LTD doesn't kick in until 6 months. Also, if my car is worth more than $3000 I don't qualify for welfare. I can keep my health insurance through COBRA, but it's $450 a month out of pocket. I can't get loans because I have too much student loan debt. My savings was used up during the 2 surgeries my 40 year old husband had after his hip replacement 18 months ago and the $20,000 we paid out of pocket in health care expenses in 2011 and the fact that he got fired the day he went back to work from medical leave.

    So, the welfare system in the US is great. It is really easy to take advantage of. Anyone can do it. A safety net for all. I'm 2 weeks away from homelessness just like so many other people, 7 years of higher education and all.

    It's not so easy to get into the system and it's hard as hell to get out. Oh, and I was a single mom for 16 years, was on welfare for 6 weeks on maternity leave when my baby was born 17 1/2 years ago and never looked back. I worked my way through an ADN, BSN, and law school. But, I could have NEVER done it without federal loans and help from my parents in the way of babysitting. Some people aren't that lucky.
    wooh likes this.
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    Right, I understand that not everyone has a supportive family and/or friends to get help. I am one of those who IS lucky enough to have people around me that, while they certainly couldn't cover high medical bills, they are there for the occasional month when I can't cover my bills or whatever the case.
    And I also understand that the system as you described it is incredibly flawed. It does make it very difficult for someone to get by when every obstacle is put in your way.
    But that is my point! Instead of feeding into a flawed system, making it MORE flawed, lets shake the etch-a-sketch and start over! Standards and cut-offs. Rules, costs, time-frames. Just START. IT. OVER.
    See, just to show an example of how corrupt the socialized system is. I am from Quebec, and anyone who is either from Canada or knows anything about politics in that part of the world knows it is the most corrupt province, from A to Zed (Wink ).
    When I graduated from nursing school, I had some issues with my first job. I came face to face with a clique of older nurses who just did everything in their power to push me out. I don't know if this is because I went to an English school, and they were all French, who knows (Again, politics in that part of the world, lots of French vs English animosity). Long story short, lost my job. Sending out resumes, doing my darndest to get a new job. In the meantime though, zero income. Phone is about to get cut off, as well as internet. Now how am I supposed to get interviews with no phone or internet? And my family, at the time, had barely enough money to cover their own bills, much less pay mine. So I went to the welfare office to apply for ONE month of assistance. I did not want more than that. Just that one month to keep my utilities covered so I could get interview calls. They made me go get both my parents financial statements, which were pretty obviously not enough to pay my things. I got back to them, they turned me down, and said that if one or both of my parents had been on welfare, they would have approved me. So basically, my parents who made LESS money than someone on welfare, barely minimum wage, should be able to help me. But if they are receiving government assistance, then I can too. Hmm.
    Last edit by uRNmyway on Dec 16, '12 : Reason: Miss-spelled word
  7. 1
    Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSED
    This is why the government should force those who visit the emergency room to pay their own bill. Over a payment plan that is stretched out however long it takes. HOWEVER. LONG. IT. TAKES!

    If they should become unable to make their payments through ONLY death or disability then and only then the government should pick up the tab, and only because the government mandated that the ER cannot turn people away (Though I am NOT saying that the ER should turn them away. Please do not make that misinterpretation).
    Who are these people you're referring to? Hospitals already aggressively go after those who have or will have the money to pay their bill, over any amount of time, what are suggesting should be different?
    wooh likes this.
  8. 0
    Quote from VBRNJD99
    There is truly a lack of education in this country regarding universal healthcare. There is not going to be one federal system, just like there isn't one system now. Each state runs their own Medicaid and CHIP programs with many different eligibility requirements, copayments, premiums, etc. some states will have federal programs, some states will have government programs, etc. the difference will be ACCESS.

    In Canada, everyone has health insurance, some people pay higher copays than others. Some medications are covered, some are not. The tax rate in Canada is lower than it is in the US, wages are higher, vacation pay, sick pay, maternity leave, etc are better than the US. They have the same fundamental freedoms we do as well. Just one example. There is also the UK, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, France, Japan, and so on.

    My employer sponsored plan does not cover Viagra, or levitra or Celebrex, or Pristiq for my husband, should I go on??

    The community hospital where I live is owned by a gagillion dollar corporation 8 states away. The CEO of that company has a net worth of $10 million dollars. Assets, not just annual income, assets, free and clear. 4 hours in the ER the other day, 1 bag of NSS, 1 finger stick, 3 minutes w the doc, 5 minutes w the nurse, $3000. I have insurance, before I left, they asked for my $300 copay without even knowing the usual and customary fee my insurance will approve. They asked 3 times and would not unlock the door for me to leave, even after I explained why. Greed, that's the problem. If I make $1000 a month, no insurance and have $10 a month extra to pay the bill, it would take a long time.

    I also know that this particular hospital gets bonuses in tax relief for treating Medicaid and uninsured patients in the community. And they get tax write offs if the patients don't pay the bills. But the money doesn't go to the patients, it goes to the corporation. That's the problem.

    We're already paying for people's healthcare, it's just crappy, short term, emergency, care which is overpriced. The US pays more of its GDP on healthcare than any 1st world country and is ranked almost last. That's sad.
    Um, I don't know what you are talking about regarding health insurance in Canada. Quebec has a different system for healthcare than the rest of Canada, but still fairly similar. I wouldn't even refer to it as 'insurance'. It is just a card you bring to the doctor, hospital, pharmacy, etc. They check you are covered, and that is it. For actual medical care, I have NEVER seen co-pay. EVER. I have seen SOME medications not be 100% covered, but it is usually minimal out of pocket. And where in the WORLD did you do your research?! Tax rates in Canada are higher than American ones! Yes, wages are higher, but that is because we are taxed more! One thing I will give, is maternity leave. I think that is a blessing. But lower taxes? I'd love to see where you saw that.
  9. 0
    And the cycle continues. I swear, I think the reason some people post is so they can be seen advocating for others. It's like many of you just want the worlds to know that, no matter what anyone else says, YOU WILL ALWAYS BE THERE TO ADVOCATE ON THE POOR'S BEHALF. you know, so you can have that warm fuzzy feeling. Doesn't matter in the least in the cases that they are not willing to help themselves. The good news is that because of people like you, they'll never have to help themselves because you all are there making sure that they'll be ok anyway.

    Thank you for your kindness. And don't worry that it will be paid for by the rest of us. That doesn't matter.
  10. 1
    Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSED
    And the cycle continues. I swear, I think the reason some people post is so they can be seen advocating for others. It's like many of you just want the worlds to know that, no matter what anyone else says, YOU WILL ALWAYS BE THERE TO ADVOCATE ON THE POOR'S BEHALF. you know, so you can have that warm fuzzy feeling. Doesn't matter in the least in the cases that they are not willing to help themselves. The good news is that because of people like you, they'll never have to help themselves because you all are there making sure that they'll be ok anyway.

    Thank you for your kindness. And don't worry that it will be paid for by the rest of us. That doesn't matter.
    YOU were "ok" thanks to the kindness of the rest of us. That's pointless to get across to you though apparently.
    wooh likes this.


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