Should Healthcare Be Funded As A Basic Human Right? - page 14

by jayp | 43,359 Views | 210 Comments

The United States of America is a nation known and heralded worldwide for its democracy, freedom, and wealth. Through our commerce, we have become a prosperous nation. Through our commonalities we stand united. Through our... Read More


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    Prepare to be shocked and horrified. I am about to reveal The Secrets of Life, and you are not going to like them. You should probably turn away and not read any further.

    Still here? Well, don't say I didn't warn you.

    THE SERETS OF LIFE FOLLOW (this is you last warning!)

    1. Life is hard, not easy.

    2. A good life does not just happen by itself, you have to work real hard to create a good life, and even harder to keep a good life good.

    3. Because of Secrets of Life 1 and 2, some people will do better in this life than others, peoples' lives will never be equally good or equally bad.

    4. No government, nor all of the good intentions and compassion in the world will ever change rules 1 through 3.

    5. Rules 1 through 4 will continue to be true no matter how hard try to make them go away by wishing they would go away.

    And finally (brace yourself, this one is going to really cut deep):

    6. Contrary to what you have been told, NIETHER YOU, NOR I, NOR ANYBODY ELSE IS ENTITLED TO ANYTHING.
    Last edit by CountyRat on Dec 6, '12
    DC Collins, uRNmyway, HM-8404, and 2 others like this.
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    Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSED
    Wouldn't you rather that they paid for it themselves? Over decades if necessary, but have some ownership in their own health? Just a thought.
    That's the system we currently have, if you can pay, you're expected to pay.

    Part of the problem is that the patients responsible for the bulk of our healthcare costs aren't going to be around for decades.

    Also, it turns out there are many, many Americans who can't afford a six digit hospital bill, whether they have decades or centuries to pay it off.
    tewdles likes this.
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    Quote from DC Collins
    Because, anecdotally, that has not been the norm, though such things do happen. I was referring, however (while failing to mention it), to more emergent things like cancer screenings when other diagnostics point toward it, organ failures, and the like. And chest pain will get me a room right away.

    I don't know about where you live / work, but in my ED, if I go in with the worst headache of my life, I get an immediate head CT. If something shows, and immediate MRI. Same with bad abdominal pain - CT. They find a brain bleed or clot, immediate surgery. They find seriously blocked small intestine, immediate admit and treatment.

    I remember reading a few years back (may have changed by now) that *all* of Canada had only as many MRIs as Detroit.

    /shrug YMMV. I can only go off of my experiences and those with whom I communicate / read about.

    DC :-)
    I'm a little skeptical that Detroit has more than 225 MRI machines. They do have fewer CT and MRI scanner per capita than we do (about 1/2 and 1/4 respectively) and they probably have too few, although we probably have too many.

    Canada does play it a bit cheap when it comes to healthcare, although they aren't as drastically inferior to the US as it's often made out to be. The claim that gets repeated often is that things are so bad Canadians flock the US for decent care. This is probably one of more scientific reviews of this supposed phenomenon: Phantoms In The Snow: Canadians‚€™ Use Of Health Care Services In The United States

    There's also the story that gets repeated so often it can seem like they're all different stories; The story of Shona Holmes "brain tumor". As the story goes she was diagnosed with a brain tumor in Canada and told she would have to wait for surgery. She got a second opinion from an American doctor who supposedly told her she would need surgery immediately or she would die, the Mayo clinic in Arizona happily offered to perform the surgery for her immediately, for $100,000.

    As it turned out, she didn't have brain cancer, she had been diagnosed with a Rathke's cleft cyst, a benign cyst that rarely requires surgical intervention. The mayo clinic later stated that this type of cyst has never been known to be fatal. The surgery for this type of cyst averages $14,000 in the US (she paid $100,000) and typically involves a wait time in the US as well as symptoms are slow to progress and not fatal.

    So basically that is sort of a good example of US healthcare; you'll have something done to you that you may not need, but at least you won't have to wait long to pay too much for something you might not have needed.
    VanLpn, Rose_Queen, and wooh like this.
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    Quote from DC Collins
    There is something to be said for working up good relationships with family and friends and community. People in the US are some of the most generous people on the planet. Asking for help is great! Getting it even better.
    DC :-)
    I'm good but I live in fear that my husband will lose his job ot the insurance company will cancel me....what would we do?

    Asking for help? Yeah, I'm not good at that..........
    tewdles likes this.
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    My ! How this thread and topic has caused such a wonderful expanse of thoughts since its arrival !!!
    The area that I seem to be missing is the lower middle class. Being a 'single' mother when my children were younger I went into nursing. But only worked part time. That was enough to cover our home, property, bills and a bit more. Certainly nothing extravagant. I cannot believe that there aren't other women or men in a similar position. Those that worked hard both for income and home and family. So, having been an RN since 1984, and absolutely loving it ! - I find myself in a place that is nearly intolerable. I have worked since 1966. Yes, nursing was a 'mid-life' change. Enougth hx. Yes, I did set up as best I could. My preference was to have one of my sons and his family live on the land with me. So when I became more ill or unable there would be someone close.
    Now, because I am Social Security age, but not yet Medicare age, there are no jobs for us well seasoned nurses. And the Soc Sec does not cover my bills - much less health insurance ! I guess that should tell all younger people to screw family and home so that you can always and just focus on yourself and your everlasting wellbeing. If that is how you take it, then so be it.
    I am glad for those that have planned and done well for themselves. I am glad for those that can't and, yet, receive health care. As a nurse and a human, I wish money could be taken out of all health care concerns. Obviously it can't. So, we are left with those 'in-betweens' - like me. Those that have worked for 40+ years. Those that may or may not receive Social Securiy. But cannot afford health care insurance. This is the working lower middle class. That is where we live and survive.

    Other nations' view our country as unbelievable and uncivilized in the way we care for our peoples in their time of need. Our country calls it socialist, or worse. We are not outstanding, as a nation, in our healthcare. We have some great hospitals, nurses and doctors, but - overall - our general and ongoing health care is crap. I do blame the corporations for sending our healthcare system into a profit motivated cesspool.
    Yes, I do think we should have 'socialized medicine' for basic and needed care. If one can't afford plastic surgery or bariatric surgery, then so be it. Too bad.
    Politically speaking ~ 'Obama Care' is the best we have yet that can provide what might be marginally accepted to such a greedy and self-centered group of people as we have produced.

    If you are a nurse of any moral and ethical value, could you refuse care to a person in need ?
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    Quote from MunoRN
    That's the system we currently have, if you can pay, you're expected to pay.

    Part of the problem is that the patients responsible for the bulk of our healthcare costs aren't going to be around for decades.

    Also, it turns out there are many, many Americans who can't afford a six digit hospital bill, whether they have decades or centuries to pay it off.
    If they are not going to be around for decades, then they make the payments until they are physically unable to do so. I can accept that compromise. The whole thing I'm getting at is that I just don't want it to be a free ride, you know? Let them at least pay as much as they can for as long as they physically can. The taxpayers can pay the rest. I can live with, and even endorse that. But let the recipients contribute something!!! It should not automatically fall 100% on the government. Am I really asking too much for us all to be willing to do more for ourselves than we ask others to do for us?
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    Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSED
    Please think about that...

    We have people on this forum who are working, yet can't afford health insurance. WORKING, and have no health insurance! WORKING, and have no health insurance. WORKING, and have no health insurance. WORKING, and have no health insurance. Yet you believe it is ok to fund the healthcare of those who don't even lift a finger to help themselves?

    Does that really sound right to you? I'm asking.
    Don't you realize that's been my argument in support of "Obamacare" the entire time?

    People who don't work already have insurance via Medicaid.

    It's people who are WORKING that don't have health insurance. Obamacare is going to help those people who are WORKING and have no health insurance. The people who don't work are already and have been for a long time taken care of.

    SO, I would say your issue should be with Medicaid, not Obamacare....if that's your true stance.
    tewdles and wooh like this.
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    Yes and No. First, let me start by saying that the sentiment behind The "Affordable Health insurance Act (OBAMACARE)" is Noble. In truth I can support a lot of it, First thing that comes to mind is it making pre existing conditions not a disqualifier for being accepted into an insurance plan. This is because it is not the fault of the individual that they have the preexisting condition. I will back that provision as strongly as the President himself!
    But there is also some unjust points to the act as well. An obvious example is for employers to pay for and provide contraceptive measures. This is wrong fundamentally. While I think contraceptives should be utilized more, tell me why my "Boss" should pay for them!
    I mean, if S/HE isn't sponsoring my sexual activity why the **** should S/He be responsible for the repurcussions of my indescretions? Other than because it's more convenient that way?

    That is my problem with our President in a nutshell. He did do a fairly decent job of identifying some of our problems, but he wants to force the responsibility of fixing them on those who have nothing to do with them in the first place. He thinks its ok to "ASK" (although in truth he really means to FORCE) our wealthy to "Pay a little more," yet he wants those who pay NOTHING to not only continue to pay nothing but to soak up even more resources.

    That is a Communist way of thinking. Does anyone disagree with this? Please think before you post...
    uRNmyway and HM-8404 like this.
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    Quote from BeagleBabe
    Our current system is idiotic, penny-wise and pound foolish. I am an unemployed, uninsured pre-nursing student. I could get COBRA from my old job at a cost of $545 a month. Since I am unemployed, I cannot pay that. I have applied for dozens of jobs, and no one is hiring. I don't qualify for medicaid (yet).

    We do have free healthcare. It's called the ER. I have gone to the ER and not paid for it. Instead, the taxpayers pay for it. It's not what I want to do, but what choice do I have? (I don't feel too bad about it, since I've paid taxes for years.) All our current system does is prevent preventative care. Instead, people like me wait until they are in dire straits, and then the taxpayers get to pay pounds to cure me, instead of pennies to prevent it.

    We are a dumb country!

    It's understandable that someone without insurance may not be able to pay an entire ER bill right away, but to never pay a dime is inexcusable for the vast majority of people.

    Do you have a cell phone or TV, smoke cigarettes, eat fast food? Have you ever purchased new clothes from a department store, bought an alcoholic drink, or gone to the movies? Unless EVERY PENNY you make goes for gas to get back and forth to work/school, you eat beans and rice exclusively, and you never go anywhere or purchase ANYTHING for entertainment, you (and everyone else in this situation) should be paying SOMETHING toward your medical bills until they are paid off or you die.
    Last edit by GM2RN on Dec 8, '12 : Reason: spelling
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    I get it.
    It is just too bad for my young friend who had to declare bankruptcy when his appendix ruptured and he had no insurance through his work.
    It is just too bad for people who are forced into bankruptcy when they develop a health issue and their insurance company cancels them and leaves them with the bill AND no insurance.
    We live in an Ayn Rand utopia and I missed the transition.
    Dang
    lindarn and wooh like this.


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