Obamacare: Should I get out while I still can? - page 5

by TexasAbby

50,464 Views | 55 Comments

Hello :) I didn't know exactly where to ask this, but I am very concerned and need some guidance...I am just about to take prerequisites to get into a BSN program. I would really love to be a nurse! And I have been looking... Read More


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    Forget about it !!!! Obama won and the law of the land is OBAMACARE for ALL...
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    I will accept that Obamacare is the law of the land, but I won't forget about it. That's exactly what he would like for you to do. Forget about questioning such things and forget about having a mind of your own. That way federal government can take over and dictate all things in regards to personal freedom. Untill we don't have any freedom left. History has warned us about being so accepting but I guess we will have to learn the hard way. The ship can try to take me down, but not without me kicking and screaming.
    Anniehow and arl50 like this.
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    Quote from AmandaVanGuilder
    I will accept that Obamacare is the law of the land, but I won't forget about it. That's exactly what he would like for you to do. Forget about questioning such things and forget about having a mind of your own. That way federal government can take over and dictate all things in regards to personal freedom. Untill we don't have any freedom left. History has warned us about being so accepting but I guess we will have to learn the hard way. The ship can try to take me down, but not without me kicking and screaming.
    .

    *** While I disagree with you I completly understand your feelings. I too have been there. Your comments mirror mine almost exactly back when Bush and company were telling obvious lies to drum up support for their aggresive invasion and bloody occupation of Iraq. I don't say that to start a discussion on those events, only wanted to say I fully understand your feelings.
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    1) Actually, if you will notice, I never suggested the ACA was "a great thing" and I do not, in fact, hold that opinion. I have not been a strong supporter of it. I merely took issue with your rationale for disliking it, as the "research" evidence you cite for basing your conclusion has not been credible. I never disagreed with your conclusion. You assume too much.

    2) As the ACA has not yet gone into effect, documentation impacts you have observed to date cannot be attributed to it. History and experience are oft misinterpreted. I do agree with your first sentence, that all we have so far with regard to the ACA are projections.

    3) I submit that neither you nor I are qualified to dispute Dr. Grubner on the details/specifics/similarities of proposals he drafted, lol.
    Sisyphus likes this.
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    Quote from AmandaVanGuilder
    I will accept that Obamacare is the law of the land, but I won't forget about it. That's exactly what he would like for you to do. Forget about questioning such things and forget about having a mind of your own. That way federal government can take over and dictate all things in regards to personal freedom. Untill we don't have any freedom left. History has warned us about being so accepting but I guess we will have to learn the hard way. The ship can try to take me down, but not without me kicking and screaming.
    That seems a bit melodramatic. Obama wants us to "forget about questioning things and forget about having a mind of your own"? I thought he wanted to make health insurance accessible. Do you know how many developed, democratic countries have either single-payer systems, individual mandates, or at least require constituents to carry major/catastrophic insurance? The answer is ALL of them. This is evidence that democracy and its inherent freedoms can persist alongside health reforms. I can relate to your post only to the extent that sometimes I want to kick & scream without a legitimate reason too.
    List of Countries with Universal Healthcare « True Cost – Analyzing our economy, government policy, and society through the lens of cost-benefit
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    Here's what I do know...When HMOs came about, I was working for a large clinic. A lot of insurance companies suddenly had patients with $5 and $10 copays. Our phone rang nonstop. People wanting an appointment for trivial things because they now only had to pay practically nothing. We all worked harder, faster, longer and for the same pay. When Obamacare starts and millions of people either get on Medicaid or this government program, and they can come to the doctor and ER with little financial obligation, the medical community will be bombarded. Numerous studies show that when people are given things for free the majority will abuse it. They will show up with a cough present less than 24 hours, be given a prescription and will probably never take it, and be right back in the office in a few days saying they didn't get any better. Most doctors I know are going to stop taking or greatly reduce their Medicare patients, refuse Medicaid all together, reduce their office hours, and are not interested in working harder for less money. Physicians in their 50s are talking about early retirement, and younger ones are looking at teaching, becoming Medical Liasons for Pharmaceuticals, going into R & D or thinking about leaving the country.
    l3wilso likes this.
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    My concern is that there will not be a big enough population that falls into the tax categories the new tax laws were designed to target to cover the costs of obamacare. That means the left overs will fall on the working middle class. My question is how much will the left over gap be and what will that mean for taxes for the working American who doesn't make over 250k/year?
    I'm fine with paying a little more in taxes if it means more care for more people. What I'm not ok with is ending up paying 50% + in income tax to fund a universal health system. Especially given so many health issues stem from preventable/modifiable risk factors(ie diet, exercise, smoking, & alcohol)
    Anyone else feel/share these concerns??
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    I agree we will definitely see an increase in minor issues with individuals arriving to the ER for service. Remember to smile, medicare will be paying based on that as well. There is nothing that can be done about it. The abuse of anything free is always present. But, healthcare for all is what people asked for.

    I think over time we will see that peeple will not abuse it much, but we will also see those that are not sick seriously will only make themselves sick as we see today.
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    It is not about not being able to ask questions, healthcare for all is what the people wanted. Healthcare for all is not what Obama said he would give us. Free healthcare was talked about in the 90s when Clinton was in office. It did not happen. The people went to their elected officials and asked for free health care. Besides if you want personal freedom, do not ask for assistance from the government, this includes Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid (state), Unemployment, Welfare, etc. These are government programs. Just have the income needed to sustain yourself and your family and you will not have to rely on the government for assistance.
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    Quote from l3wilso
    It is not about not being able to ask questions, healthcare for all is what the people wanted. Healthcare for all is not what Obama said he would give us. Free healthcare was talked about in the 90s when Clinton was in office. It did not happen. The people went to their elected officials and asked for free health care. Besides if you want personal freedom, do not ask for assistance from the government, this includes Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid (state), Unemployment, Welfare, etc. These are government programs. Just have the income needed to sustain yourself and your family and you will not have to rely on the government for assistance.
    No, they are all not pure "government programs" in the way you are associating them with a type of welfare.

    As one is sure you've noticed funds are removed from your wages and or you pay when filing federal income taxes for FICA, Medicare etc.. These are entitlement programs in that the government takes funds from you in your youth/adult life and in return pays back an annunity payment of sort in your old age and provides for your healthcare at that time as well.

    In addition the government from those withdrawal of funds will make payments to your spouse for her/his healthcare and also retirement benefits regardless if they worked a day in their lives or not. The only difference is those whom have worked can choose between their own benefits or their spouses depending upon which is higher. Furthermore one's minor children and widow/widower may also be eligible for survivor benefits upon your death ig yhry meet certain conditions.


    Persons currently drawing SS and or those just about to enter on average have and will receive more, much more in benefits than they put into the system. Those from the tail end of the Boomer generation and following will receive benefits currently fixed at about 75% of what they put in and that number is probaly going to decrease as years continue.

    This dependency upon government and in some cases could be called *welfare* (payment of benefits to those whom have not directly paid into the system by virtue of marriage and or parental relationship despite the worker paying the same amount in regardless of his or her marital status as a single person), is just what Democrats want and need. If younger Americans were given the option as some Republicans have wanted, to switch their payroll taxes into a private retirement scheme, the entire SS program would collapse. It is that dependent upon younger workers paying into the system in order to support those older/retired that it does not work as a "pay as you go" program otherwise.


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