Nurses radical bid to knock out political curruption - page 3

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  1. by   RN4MERCY
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    Not even a good soundbite.

    I'm sorry, being a good nurse has NOTHING to do with an obligation to be a good little liberal.

    In fact, I'm conservative BECAUSE I believe that it is in the best economic, political, and social interest of everybody, patients included.

    I'm a conservative because conservatism means caring. That IS patient advocacy.

    While we might have different worldviews, it's silly to state that if I don't agree with YOU politically, why, I must not be a true patient advocate.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Wow. Where did that come from? I don't see that I "stated" anything of the sort. I believed I was merely challenging you to consider the roots of patient advocacy by pointing out that historically, nursing pioneers such as Dock, Wald and Nightingale identified and worked to remove/protest/propose and implement solutions to the economic, political and social barriers that had negative impacts on the health of their patients. I'm disappointed that you would cast aspersions rather than sticking to a discussion of the idea. More food for thought from Dr. Patricia Benner's book, from Novice to Expert:

    "Nursing offers crucial services that require high intelligence, a thorough and sound educational base, and firm grounding in the ethics of both rights and justice and care and responsiblity. Structural or linear process descriptions or any context-stripping approach runs the risk of overlooking or mistaking the quality of caring."

    "Wake up, strengthen what remains and is about to die." Rev. 3:2
    ~Faith, back at you, my friend!
  2. by   RN4MERCY
    I'm not sure about the initials, CNA in reference to union, but I'm uncomfortable with "in bed with" accusations and I don't think name calling in general is constructive or productive, however when you're frustrated and disappointed, "slips happen". Did you mean the California Nurse Alliance, or Colorado or Connecticut Nurses Association, not that it really matters at this point, but there are specific prerogatives of a union. Some unions are very active politically, working to pass laws that protect nursing practice and patient advocacy. I know that unions represent members for the purposes of collective bargaining over wages, hours and working conditions; and representation of members who have been victims of contract violations or those who believe they have been unfairly disciplined. As a union member you have Weingarden Rights to have a union representative present at meetings with your supervisor if you have the reasonable belief that discipline will result from the meeting, and you have the right to know what the meeting is about before you meet with a supervisor. Did the supervisor deny your request for a union representative? Did you call the ethics hotline at your hospital or the Department of Health Services to report the abuse of patients?
    Did you notify the primary care doctor or the medical director or nursing director of this abuse and what was their response?
    Last edit by RN4MERCY on Nov 16, '06
  3. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from RN4MERCY
    "Wake up, strengthen what remains and is about to die." Rev. 3:2
    ~Faith, back at you, my friend!
    Ah, the power of perspective:

    "I know your afflictions and your poverty - yet you are rich!" Rev 2:9

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  4. by   whistle1429
    Of course I did that- and a whole lot more! Every Governmental agency has been contacted- and that was only after I notified my employer, the corporate office, Ethics committee, Risk Hotline... need I go on?
    I am not foolish enough, or spiteful enough to just demand representation, and assume the union will take care of it all... BUT- I do expect fair representation, definately! When you pay hundreds of dollars per month for representation, and after 10 years, you finally need it... wouldn't you hope that you could count on FAIR REPRESENTATION? The rep did such a bad job with my case that I ultimately had to file a complaint with the NLRB against them, because it was such inadequate representation- and I'm not the only one who had issues with it from the start- there are many other nurses who had filed complaints against the rep, with no avail... I wasn't about to just let it go- too many people sit down... somebody has to stand up-
    What do you think happens, when you go in to file a complaint, and other employees/nurses never filed their complaint, therefore, the employer and/or agency states, "Well, you're the only one who feels that way!" Do you understand how the passive attitude, the "I don't care", I"m too weak, I don't want to stir things up.... that whole mentatlity is detrimental to our profession, and if people have problems within the nursing field- just keep quiet about it, unless you're willing to take a stand! You have no room to complain, if you don't even raise your concern! I'm so tired of those people who watch on the sidelines... they reap the rewards of other nurses suffering, and hard work!
    Retaliation exists in the medical field because nurses allow it to!
    If the fact that I mention the union "in bed" with the employer offends you- I'm sorry that reality bites so hard... but that's the truth! Who is really paying the unions wages? THE EMPLOYER! We all are out of work without the employer... they're out of work without sick people! The union would be out of work if not for all of us... so they stroke ALL of us... they raise concerns about "patient safety, and staffing ratios", and they rally to get higher pay... but in the end... they conspire with the employer- when you are there (and hopefully, you never will be)- but if you are in that position some day, you're eyes will become wide open! I"ve been in the field for 20 years, and my current situation literally SHOCKED me! It still shocks me! It's astounding- the corruption in medicine! Don't you realize how nurses are more and more becoming the fall guy? We're the ones who is considered "nurse ratchet"- not the doctors! NOt the unions! The nurses take the fall time and time again! But- we can only blame eachother, because the majority of us either don't care about the patients, and we're just into it for the pay check... or we don't care about our fellow nurses- but then again.... we are the profession who eats our young!
    where do you suppose such a bad reputation comes from?
    Instead of taking a strong stand on the Unions behalf... why don't you stand strong for the patients, and the nurses???
    Bottom line- we wouldn't need unions, if nurses were as strong as the patients think we are! If we stood together on issues, rather than back-stab one another, compete, retaliate.... then perhaps we could all save ourselves a couple of buck every month-
    Do you really condone the unions use of our money- to campaign for other states- when they can't even adequately protect the members that pay into them? I mean- why should arbitration be left to their discretion? Why does it have to go through the approval process- we're paying for it! are we not? Do you know how many grievances they turn down? They don't want to flip the legal bill, but they sure don't mind taking our money every month! Cut out the middle man- or at least demand more from the union! Find another union to give them a little competition! Get nurses together to invest their money into starting up a union! I mean really, how many nurses do you think work for the union? And you want the public to believe they really care about PATIENT SAFETY, STAFFING RATIOS, etc? Please- throw me something that sticks!
  5. by   Simplepleasures
    Quote from whistle1429
    Instead of taking a strong stand on the Unions behalf... why don't you stand strong for the patients, and the nurses???
    Bottom line- we wouldn't need unions, if nurses were as strong as the patients think we are! If we stood together on issues, rather than back-stab one another, compete, retaliate.... then perhaps we could all save ourselves a couple of buck every month-
    Do you really condone the unions use of our money- to campaign for other states- when they can't even adequately protect the members that pay into them? I mean- why should arbitration be left to their discretion? Why does it have to go through the approval process- we're paying for it! are we not? Do you know how many grievances they turn down? They don't want to flip the legal bill, but they sure don't mind taking our money every month! Cut out the middle man- or at least demand more from the union! Find another union to give them a little competition! Get nurses together to invest their money into starting up a union! I mean really, how many nurses do you think work for the union? And you want the public to believe they really care about PATIENT SAFETY, STAFFING RATIOS, etc? Please- throw me something that sticks!
    I believe most nurses DO take a stand for their patients, but not nessesarily for themselves.I TOTALLY agree with you that if your union did not do the job you hired them to do, they need to go. I think you are on to something when you say the we would get better representation if the unions had to compete against each other, if they did not do the job they were hired for. My daughter is a Employment/Labor attorney, she does not represent any union, she works in a governmental agency.She assures me there are ways to gey a BAD union out of your facility, BUT if you think that you will have it better with no union , you are setting yourself up for even more of the same , BUT WORSE.Lets give the CONCEPT of a union a chance, after all you yourself are advocating for a "union " of nurses to get together for change, but theses types of nurses advocacy groups have no teeth, no NLRB to back them up.
    Last edit by Simplepleasures on Nov 27, '06
  6. by   Keysnurse2008
    spacenurse..awesome blog.what the cna is trying to shine the spotlight on is pure corruption. these are topics that no one wants to discuss until some unfortunate day.....it is their family member that is in that icu bed. and they are "dependant" on that healthcare institution to provide safe quality nursing care. what happens when their loved one dies from a medical or nursing error? how will they feel when they find out that that hospital covered up the true reason of the loss of their loved one? what will they likely do? file a legal action....in front of a corrupt judge that is biased bc of campaign contributions he or she received from that hospital?how will they feel to know that when a healthcare worker spoke up about unsafe conditions...be it unsafe staffing ratios....or just unsafe care given by a coworker...that the healthcare worker was fired? then...what is that healthcare worker going to do? what is their recourse? are they going to file legal action? and then...that legal action will be heard in front of who????hmmm.....when a reporter eventually sinks their teeth into these stories america will be shocked to learn that their loved one life .....was worth what?- it worth the 3,300 $ of "ahem- sushi "- (in reference to the blog posted by space nurse) from the judge's campaign contribution dinner. more and more states are focusing on political corruption....and when these "ahem dinners" are outted to the public....and the law "bent" to sway towards a benifactor(msp) .....judges careers are in ruins. and that....is what needs to occur...let them answer to the bar association...and to the public...bc...a life is worth more than 3,300$ worth of sushi....that is just my opinion. eventually...the press will sink their teeth into this guys.

    Quote from spacenurse
    radical bid to knock out political curruption:

    tveyes media monitoring suite - [transcript]
  7. by   Simplepleasures
    [quote=tnnurse;1949660] these are topics that no one wants to discuss until some unfortunate day.....it is their family member that is in that icu bed. and they are "dependant" on that healthcare institution to provide safe quality nursing care. what happens when their loved one dies from a medical or nursing error? how will they feel when they find out that that hospital covered up the true reason of the loss of their loved one? what will they likely do? file a legal action....in front of a corrupt judge that is biased bc of campaign contributions he or she received from that hospital?how will they feel to know that when a healthcare worker spoke up about unsafe conditions...be it unsafe staffing ratios....or just unsafe care given by a coworker...that the healthcare worker was fired? then...what is that healthcare worker going to do? what is their recourse? are they going to file legal action? and then...that legal action will be heard in front of who????quote]

    right on tnnurse! i think we both know of which we speak.i think trends seem to be placing blame away from the hospital/nursing homes. yes i know there are alot of regulations out there but are they being enforced? now it appears that the doj is getting into the act of punishing nurses instead.i think we may be becoming an endangered species. getting back to the topic, if you do ever need to appear in front of a judge in an employment related lawsuit and depend on him to make a wise ,fair , unbiased judgement ,i hope you get lucky.
  8. by   Keysnurse2008
    Ingelin,
    I know what you are saying. It is.....difficult to trust that any atty/Judge will do the correct thing. But....we have to be proactive. This...is what I think.....there are alot of corrupt people in the world- that's true. But...there are also alot of really great atty's and really great Judges that have a great love of the law and a strong deep ethical core...so to catagorize a specific "group" as all good or all bad is not being just. We have all read about the guy who complained about the unsafe staffing ratios and unsafe working conditions at his hospital and was fired. I think his last name was adams...I will have to recheck. Anyway......what was the course for him? first yeah he ran into a unethical Judge who sided with the hospital and said his bogus termination was "justified"....when he appealed that ruling what happened? The initial Judge's decision was overturned.....and the decision was reversed.....he got his job back.....back pay, atty fees, compensation for pain and emotional duress etc etc...it dug a huge hole into that hospitals pockets for their decision to err on the side with that manager.In the end.....what happened to his manager? remember???? Mr Adam's manager was investigated and her nsg liscence was revoked...thats what happened.Then there was the Kansas nurse who spoke up for c/o an act that she witnessed another nurse commit and was bogusly fired.What happened in that case? The initial Judge thru out the case without regard to the law.....the nurse appealed the case......and opted for 300+K to settle her case. Just a thought here......what does it do the reputation of a Judge when his/her decision is reversed in cases like these where the law and letter of the law is totally disregarded?What does that accomplish? My answer is....it leaves a legal papertrail. I have read about Judges who get disbarred eventually bc their legal decisions are not rendered by the letter of the law and it leaves the papertrail that later comes back to haunt them. But there are also..to be fair....alot of really great Judges and attys DO have a strong ethical core and thus have the reputation that carries them far in their careers.
  9. by   Simplepleasures
    TNNURSE, thanks I needed that.
  10. by   ZASHAGALKA
    A telling statistic as to why this 'reform' failed:

    In 2005, only 9% of taxpayers checked off the 3 dollar contribution box for Presidential elections, even though it would come at no additional cost to them.

    The concept of voter financing of campaigns is just not popular.

    RealClearPolitics - Articles - Campaign-Finance Reform Has Been a Bust

    Democratic pollster Celinda Lake offered some insights into why the program is so unpopular. "People can't imagine paying their own good money to have more campaign ads sent to them,"

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  11. by   pickledpepperRN
    I remember absolutely knowing that the accepted idea that "everyone knows" integration won't work was based on ignorance. hey said, "What if your daughter married one?" Well my grandparents son and daughter married one.
    My maternal grandfather was appalled that HIS beautiful daughter wanted to marry a white jazz musician.
    "They use dope" he said.
    My United States Marines uncle, home on leave, convinced my grandma to invite my Daddy to be to dinner. My Dad wore his Air Force uniform. He and my grandfather got along famously. My parents were a loving couple from 1942 until my Mom died in 1979. They were wonderful parents and grandparents. You have heard my Dads horn if you are over ten years old and watch TV or go to movies.

    Now "they" say nothing can be done about the corporations and big labor making OUR laws.
    Sorry. When people realize that these corporations only care about profit and the big unions are in partnership with these corporations WE THE PEOPLE will change this currupt system.

    The "Clean Money Initiative" was for state offices. Also the candidates in the general election for President turn down public funding so they can take the BIG money
    2004 Presidential Election


    People need much more education. When voters don't understand an initiative they vore "no".
    Opensecrets: US Congress

    Plus we are not giving up - Prop. 89: We've Opened a Door for Reform That Will Never Be Closed
  12. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from spacenurse
    I remember absolutely knowing that the accepted idea that "everyone knows" integration won't work was based on ignorance. hey said, "What if your daughter married one?" Well my grandparents son and daughter married one.
    My maternal grandfather was appalled that HIS beautiful daughter wanted to marry a white jazz musician.
    "They use dope" he said.
    My United States Marines uncle, home on leave, convinced my grandma to invite my Daddy to be to dinner. My Dad wore his Air Force uniform. He and my grandfather got along famously. My parents were a loving couple from 1942 until my Mom died in 1979. They were wonderful parents and grandparents. You have heard my Dads horn if you are over ten years old and watch TV or go to movies.

    Now "they" say nothing can be done about the corporations and big labor making OUR laws.
    Sorry. When people realize that these corporations only care about profit and the big unions are in partnership with these corporations WE THE PEOPLE will change this currupt system.

    The "Clean Money Initiative" was for state offices. Also the candidates in the general election for President turn down public funding so they can take the BIG money
    2004 Presidential Election


    People need much more education. When voters don't understand an initiative they vore "no".
    Opensecrets: US Congress

    Plus we are not giving up - Prop. 89: We've Opened a Door for Reform That Will Never Be Closed
    I only posted that 9% thing now because I only just read it and thought it was pertinent to this debate.

    AT issue with the whole 'let the gov't clean the political system' concept is that the gov't is RUN by politicians. That's a self-policing program that lets the foxes guard the chicken house.

    In reality what happens is the SAME thing that is happening w/ McCain-Feingold: politicans read the law not on the basis of how it creates a fair playing field, but how they can use it to gain advantage against their opponents.

    MoveOn.org and SwiftBoatsForTruth being just 2 examples of what you get when you let the foxes run the henhouse.

    In reality, the result is censorship, not of 'bad' political ideas, if there is such a thing, but of any political speech those in power believe will hurt THEIR chances of re-election.

    The only way to have a relative 'clean' process is to leave the process completely unencumbered by means of manipulation by those that benefit from the process. In other words, the gov't should butt out when it comes to the political process.

    Money IS speech in a society that gets out its message by money-bought media exposure. To restrict or redirect the flow of dollars, in any way, is to tamper with free speech. THAT is what will serve to create corruption FAR more then letting the individual or combined efforts of voters have their voice unfettered at the table.

    I like your story about your parents, but it's just not on point. I'm simply not some campaign finance bigot that needs to be run to ground by voters educated to understand that my viewpoint is immoral.

    I don't mean that in a bad way, but that appears to be the moral of your story. THIS is not about ME being immoral with my view that politicians can't be trusted to police themselves; rather, we have different viewpoints on what would bring about a better, more moral (more fair if you will) outcome.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Jan 1, '07
  13. by   pickledpepperRN
    Don't we the people own the airwaves?
    Why not require debates in prime time for a broadcast license?

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